Tweet
Originally posted by JimParker256
View Post
-
I can't help but be curious about this same engine option. I like a lot of things about it, but I didn't know that about the weight comparison. Are there any installations on Patrols that you know of?
Mark
Scratch building Patrol #275
Hood River, OR-
I haven't heard of anyone else using the UL Power engine on a Patrol. They've got some good info on their website: www.ulpower.com. They publish all their manuals and SBs there for anyone to look at. I kind of like their open attitude.
Aside from the off the beaten path nature of any non-standard engine installation, the UL Power engines are fuel injected, which I believe would require either a header tank, or fuel return lines to the wing tanks (which in turn would require a more complex duplex-type fuel valve...). Lots to think about if you go that way. -
A search on the FAA's website shows that the most of 13 Patrol registered so far installed the Lycoming O-360 vaient of engine. One installed an O-320, another an O-375, and I think 2 others did not list an engine. None with ULPower that we know of. Another option coming out soon will be the new design 135 hp Rotax with Turbo Charger. 40,000 of these engine types have been built, and they power alot of UAV's.
-
-
You only need a header tank or return lines with certain "unique" injection systems. Many modern systems, and the old Bendix / Lycoming system only need nice high pressure.Comment
-
From looking at one of the videos for the UL Power engine on YouTube (clip from the installation CD set that's available from a 3rd party), it shows them installing two fuel transducers, one for the pressure line and one for the return line. And I'm pretty sure I saw that requirement in the installation manual as well. One could "go cheap" and have the fuel always return to one tank (like the Bonanza), but not knowing how much fuel was in what tank would drive me batty. IF I go with the UL Power (and it's still a BIG IF in my mind), I'll probably have to figure out some form of a header tank. There's lots to like about the UL Power engine design. Having the heads separate from the cylinders means you can do valve work without messing up the piston/ring seal, and without relaxing the torque on the main bearings. I REALLY like the way they designed the engine so that when you remove the oil pan, you can see the crankshaft, all the main bearings, camshaft, cam bearings, etc. Easy to inspect the bottom end without doing much disassembly.
On the plus side, video showed them interfacing with a Dynon Skyview system, so the engine setups are probably already available - one less thing to worry about. I long ago decided to go with Dynon for my panel after flying one on the LSA Sport Cruiser I flew to get current after a multi-year layoff. One centrally mounted Skyview, along with their Intercom system, VHF Comm, and (maybe) their Autopilot control head. I'll likely also go with their transponder with ADS-B Out, so I don't have to worry about the 2020 requirements (since I live under the DFW Class Bravo). Add a small steam-gauge ASI, and an iPad Mini 4 (with either ForeFlight or FlyQ EFB), and it should be a very clean panel, with lots of space for future enhancements...
-
-
Both aircraft seem so good..... like picking between Terry Clark and Shania Twain ...............
I have not hear of UL power engines - Not sure if I like full electronic ignition- and electric fuel pump- but maybe I am just anti-electronic !
How about a crankshaft driven piston- fuel pump like on my cummins truck ?????
Sounds like I might be leaning towards the patrol- after hearing the account of Clevenger doing loops and rolls in the prototype- it must be
reasonably strong. ( I like that- if for nothing more than knowing I have a built-in oh-crap factor..... ) but still not decided ..... (dang me)
Wayne- are you based in central florida ? I used to hang out at X61 when my cousin had his project there..... that's a pleasant place
if you have never visited there. Have you met Alex Nelon ? He writes a local flying blog for central florida...... I think its called
"lets go fly" ! I think he grew up in florida at his dad's airport. He might like to do a story on your build ? (he is a recently retired airline and
corporate pilot ) He has a great knowledge of all types of planes and the history of flying in florida.
Tim
Comment
-
Yes the E-mag, I have been awaiting the 6 cylinder version, which has been delayed yet AGAIN. Recently they started taking deposits - some of which they are now returning if customers can't wait.... but they are making progress, but it's slow.Comment
-
Just a little comment on Patrol engines.
My customer's Patrol ended up with an IO-375 with E-Mags, 195hp. We first hung an IO-390 (210hp) on it that he had from another project, but it was going to require a bit wider firewall and the cowls were going to have to be wider, which I thought would disrupt the clean lines of the plane.
The extra power and expense of the 375 is certainly not required, the only scenario I can think of that it would be a bonus is on floats. 180hp is ample for the Patrol.Last edited by aerolite; 12-12-2015, 08:11 AM.Steve Busby
www.aeroliteflight.caComment
-
Regarding engines, due to the popularity of the O-360 line, you can find used O-320s dirt cheap these days. I got mine with a zero time rebuild for under $10k. No mags, but I'm planning to use the Fly EFII system, unless something better comes along before I start plumbing the fuel system (highly likely at the rate I'm going LOL). And the Patrol reportedly flies very nicely on an O-320, where the 4 place recommends at least an O-360 (though I've always thought that a 4 place with the rear seat and cargo area left out, and limited to 2,000lbs would make a great side by side 2 seater if someone was so inclined).Phil Schaefer
Patrol #073
Working on SparsComment
-
Totally agree with the above posts about having a plane that fits your mission. It also depends on where you plan to fly it. I find the O-540 powered 4-seat to be the perfect western US "mountain/backcountry" airplane with 2-people and gear. Most landing TO elevations are 4,000 plus feet and with summer temps it helps to be lightly loaded. If most of your flying is at lower elevations or flying solo (or 2-people and light on gear), then hands down, go with the patrol.
You do not have permission to view this gallery.
This gallery has 2 photos.Comment
-
Another consideration is passenger comfort. My wife doesn't enjoy long trips in the back seat and much prefers the front seat. That's not because the back seat isn't comfortable to sit in, it is, but she doesn't have the same visibility. Also by being behind the center of lift, she is more susceptible to motion sickness. We have a family of five so she rotates out with the kids on long trips so has quite a bit of time in both positions. Note, we only haul 4 people, not 5 in the BH.
That might be a consideration if you plan to have a female companion along or someone susceptible to motion sickness. Of course, there is also the possibility that it has nothing to do with seat position, and instead speaks volumes about my lack of rudder skill!Comment
-
You could actually just build the Bearhawk 4 seater as a two seater only. However, we just made our rear seat a "quick release" so we can take it out or put it in very easily. So we have the flexibility. We are using the Lycoming IO-360 with injection and 200 hp but I agree with those that say the 180 is probably the best "bottom end" engine for the airplane. You can put an O-320 on it but I think you would wish you had the bigger engine. Of course you can go up to the 260 hp O-540 but I think that is overkill for what you are talking about. If you just built the 4 place with two seats then I guess the O-320 would be OK as Phil suggests.
Side-by-side seating can make a big difference to the passenger. If you are married to the passenger and they have endured many hours of you being out in the garage or hangar building the plane maybe side-by-side would be a good option!
The tail feathers on the 4 place can be built now with airfoils for the horizontal and vertical stabs. Bob came out with a change for that. We had already built our stabs so we are adding wood strips to give it the air foil shape. We were able to set our horizontal stab 2 degrees up from the original plans due to this change so it may add a bit of speed and control authority.
I find the 4 place cabin to be a nice width and that is very important to me. I love having the extra rear seat as well as the baggage compartment. Also, you get a door up front for each pilot and a window for each to open on taxi. Pretty nice set up with the 4 place in my opinion!
The 4 place is a BIG airplane. It is full sized. There is nothing half way about it. We are building from scratch/plans and sometimes I think the plane is getting bigger as we go!!
We are still building ours and I have only had a chance to ride once and sit in others but I am pretty pleased with the overall comfort.Comment
-
I haven't had the back seat in in years, we use it as a two seat pick up truck. Of course it depends on your mission and location but I would consider 180 hp to be minimum for the four place. The more STOL stuff I get into the more power I want.Comment
-
X2 about more HP. Even with the 540, there are times I want/need more.Comment
-
Fairchild, did you decide what to do?Comment
-
I've never flown a Patrol, though I may get to rectify that situation at Mark's ranch in April. To my mind, the only thing I have given up with my 4 place is centerline seating and the ability to keep track of both sides of the landing area. You are going to spend roughly the same amount of time and money building the 2 place or 4. I rarely put the rear seats in, but when I need them they're there. Not gonna happen with a Patrol and I can only afford one airplane. The Patrol will carry a load, but when we go camping I'm the one with the bicycle and the firewood. PatComment
-
I think I like the 4 place better- all though I cold do either. It may have to wait a while as about half the company I worked for got laid off. Kinda sucks as that was
about half my motivation for working....... I guess that's the way it goes.....
Comment
-
Can you fit 2 people and 2 mtbs in a patrol, or would that require the Model B?Comment
Comment