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Approximate number of hours to scratch build to the equivalent quick build kit

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  • David Swartzendruber
    replied
    Originally posted by Stefano View Post
    Is the same wing planform and airfoil used on the 4B, Companion and Patrol? (Not including differences from wing tips and VGs)
    Yes, and the Model 5 is included in that group as well. Structurally, the 5 and the 4B wings are the same and the Companion and the Patrol wings are the same.

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  • Stefano
    replied
    Is the same wing planform and airfoil used on the 4B, Companion and Patrol? (Not including differences from wing tips and VGs)

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  • Bcone1381
    replied
    For the patrol....

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  • Frank
    commented on 's reply
    I asked Bob about the skin stiffeners. He said he's not seen any cracking or other problems on his planes due to the canning/flexing of the wing skin. I asked if there were drawings for the wing stiffener option (other than what's already available for Patrol plans) and he said he'd get back to me on that.

  • jaredyates
    replied
    There sure are a lot of planes flying around doing fun things whose skins were installed without going to all that trouble.

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  • svyolo
    replied
    I had somebody in the local EAA chapter mention skinning the wings "warm". I can't wrap my head around that. Once the holes are drilled, QB or scratch built, I would think the shape is set in stone. The ribs might move a bit, but not the spars/skin interface.

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  • Stefano
    replied
    Originally posted by Frank View Post
    Regardless if one method is better or not, scratch building to the quick build stage would not be exactly "equivalent."
    I see. Scratch-building and buying some parts may close the gap? I found this thread with some other solutions to the oil-canning problem:
    BEAE7981-B242-4C31-9F0E-8A5302D13932.png Let me start with saying I am not trying to stir a pot in anyway. I respect the designer and what he has created.Home building is about learning and that’s all I am doing with this question. I saw this pic on Instagram of the 5 and noticed a lot of oil canning on the upper skin. Is


    Interesting about skinning the wings warm. I live in a climate that has hot dry summers. It may be best for me to plan to skin the wings in July-August. Maybe even throw an electric blanket over the skin?
    Last edited by Stefano; 03-28-2024, 07:20 PM.

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  • gregc
    commented on 's reply
    I suspect the rib difference is due to the fabrication process. I think the factory ribs are hydroformed by a third party.

  • Frank
    replied
    Plans nose rib flange stop before reaching the nose and is trimmed. Factory nose ribs have a flange across the nose, and is not trimmed.
    Plans lightening hole flanges are a straight 30 degree press. Factory lightening hole flanges are different from plans, look more like Vans lightening hole flanges.
    Three skin stiffeners (to address canning) are now standard on all factory wings. So far, Bob has only drawn a single skin stiffener as an option on Patrol plans.
    These are the only differences I am aware of. There may be more.
    Regardless if one method is better or not, scratch building to the quick build stage would not be exactly "equivalent."
    You do not have permission to view this gallery.
    This gallery has 3 photos.

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  • Stefano
    replied
    Originally posted by Frank View Post
    One thing to consider maybe is that the factory parts and assembly are sometimes different from plans built. Compare, for instance, factory nose ribs to plans nose ribs. Or factory skin stiffeners versus plans which do not include these.
    Hi Frank. Could you be more specific about these two examples? What is the difference between factory vs plans nose ribs? Where are the skin stiffeners added that are not included in the plans? Has there been any known problems with the plans-made parts that the factory parts solved?

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  • SpruceForest
    commented on 's reply
    That may be the case for the Bearhawk factory parts, but most definitely NOT for the Cessna, Piper, and other light aircraft manufacturer parts I've see on the airframe side of things. My goal has been 'better than factory' based on those supposedly 'blessed by the manufacturer' airworthy parts.

  • Frank
    commented on 's reply
    Particularly mine.

  • Frank
    replied
    One thing to consider maybe is that the factory parts and assembly are sometimes different from plans built. Compare, for instance, factory nose ribs to plans nose ribs. Or factory skin stiffeners versus plans which do not include these. I wonder what other differences there are between factory and plans. In general, I think the factory parts could be considered superior to plans built parts.

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  • alaskabearhawk
    commented on 's reply
    To be honest, I did take the comment about Virgil Irwin raising prices, i.e "boutique model" of doing business as a negative only in the sense of price gouging. I can suppose that, but from what I have seen so far of Virgil and his approach to the company I don't see that as a reason for price increases. I would lean toward what Jared had said.

    Also, my project hours are actual work hours. I never logged any time on my kitlog other than direct work on the project. That figure is probably on the conservative side because I'm sometimes embarrassed to log how long it actually took me to accomplish some of the tasks. I probably have at least half again the total hours in training and internet research. But, I have learned so much that it was worth it. Was it always fun? No. There were certainly times I was frustrated by my own inabilities and I just had to lock the door to the shop and walk away for a day or two. When I would come back I usually had what I call a BFO (Blinding Flash of the Obvious) and could solve the issue and move on. But the days of relative smooth sailing tended to outnumber the bad and it is satisfying, especially as my skills improved.

    It didn't bother me about the noob thing. Sometimes I just miss stuff and I need a reminder as to what to look for. Lord knows the amount of noob questions I posed on the old forum and the new that today would seem silly to me. But from where I was at the time it seemed like I was looking at the summit of Mt. Everest from the base.
    Last edited by alaskabearhawk; 03-27-2024, 05:55 PM.

  • SpruceForest
    replied
    You can scratch-build pretty fast if desired... this is Carlo's build right at six months from receipt of plans... and this included engineering the wet wings. Full time job with an aviation advocacy group as an A&P-IA plus 4.25 other airplanes to take care of (2.25 his/2 spouse) and that recently acquired wife. I remain in awe.

    The real reason for the shots? The alternate build jig knocks a lot of time off building up the spar and rib assembly, plus gives really excellent access (which makes riveting way easier). The skinning jig is vertical, and is being welded up of 1/4" industrial shelving and rack stock.

    IMG_0490.jpg IMG_0488.jpg IMG_0487.jpg IMG_0489.jpg .
    Last edited by SpruceForest; 03-26-2024, 10:08 PM.

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