Bearhawk Aircraft Bearhawk Tailwheels LLC Eric Newton's Builder Manuals Bearhawk Plans Bearhawk Store

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Engine pricing

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Engine pricing

    Hi, new prospective buyer/ builder. I recently got the go-ahead on buying from my wife and am sold on the bearhawk I think. In particular the model 5 as being able to take the whole family was a requirement and threw my kitfoz plans out the door.

    Before I get too deep on the bearhawk though I'm pricing things out to be able to make the best decisions and I'm really struggling to find an accurate price range for the o540 or io540 engines. I have found rebuilds of unspecified variants claiming to be 300hp for 32,000 and new upward of 100k. If the price variance is that large I'm either looking for the wrong things or not understanding what I'm seeing.

    the io540 seems preferable on all items except perhaps cost, same but more for the io580. If someone with more experience in lycomings could provide a reasonable price range for these engines I would be very grateful!! Thanks!

  • #2
    I found the same thing--25k to 100k+. If you decide to buy new, your best bet is to talk to Mark G as he can get some discounted pricing from Lycoming, specifically one of the engines from their experimental line (think Vans YIOxxx motors). For an angle valve IO540 you're looking at 55-60k depending on model and options. You can also go the Thunderbolt route for an additional 3-4k...ish.

    You can certainly save some money on the used side by having a shop or person (eg Bob Barrows) build an engine for you. The prices, quality, and delivery times vary widely, so more research will be required. Expect to pay 35-50k (ish) going this route.

    Hope that helps

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by flashf16 View Post
      I found the same thing--25k to 100k+. If you decide to buy new, your best bet is to talk to Mark G as he can get some discounted pricing from Lycoming, specifically one of the engines from their experimental line (think Vans YIOxxx motors). For an angle valve IO540 you're looking at 55-60k depending on model and options. You can also go the Thunderbolt route for an additional 3-4k...ish.

      You can certainly save some money on the used side by having a shop or person (eg Bob Barrows) build an engine for you. The prices, quality, and delivery times vary widely, so more research will be required. Expect to pay 35-50k (ish) going this route.

      Hope that helps
      Very helpful! Thanks! Would a tio-540 be a match for the bearhawk? I live at 5k msl and plan most trips to be in 6 to 10k msl area. With a family of 4 plus dog and gear the extra power might be worth looking into. My original plan was the 915is rotax when I was looking at the kitfox so if the tio 540 isn't in the 100k range i might look into that as well. From the same rebuilt sources it looks like the high 40s to low 50s?

      Comment


      • #4
        It might not be an option to use a turbocharged engine. The cowling is tight and a turbocharger installation takes up a lot of room and makes a lot of heat. A 540/580 Model 5 with 260-315 HP would give you more than acceptable performance. Especially if you build light.

        I think Bob Barrows pricing for an overhauled IO540 of 300 HP is in the upper 30's. A new one from Lycoming is around $56K. Mark

        Comment


        • flashf16
          flashf16 commented
          Editing a comment
          Well, disregard my 'turbo' advice

      • #5
        I would think you could make whatever cowling mods required/desired for turbocharging and of course you have the aux tank option for the fuel piece.
        I'll PM the contact info for the Lycoming Thunderbolt rep I've been talking to and you can get accurate turbo pricing from him. Mark should be able to do the same thing with his rep and obviously y'all will hash that out.
        I can't speak accurately to the used/rebuilt pricing, but I would guess you're in the ballpark.

        Comment


        • #6
          There are so many options available. You would be the first I am aware of to use a turbocharged 540 in a Bearhawk. I have not heard of anyone unhappy with a Bob Barrows rebuilt engine, you might talk to him about options and pricing. I rebuilt a parallel valve 540 from a first run core with new cylinders for a total price of $23K, so there are cheaper options. I would not hesitate to use my engine in a Bearhawk 5 as I believe it will easily make 300HP and is much lighter than an angle valve engine.

          Comment


          • #7
            I wonder if some of the variability you are seeing in used engines reflects the sheer number and variety of used 6 cylinder engines available. The inventory of 4-cylinder has been picked over and over, mostly due to the number of Vans RV builders, and it’s hard to find anything decent. I gave up looking at rusted hulks with no paperwork for 12 grand and ordered from Bob. I don’t think the same situation exists in the class of engines you are looking for though, which could be a very good thing for you. I would give an honest try to find the right deal used, and if it doesn’t work out, or you want more certainty, other posters gave you some pretty good options.

            Comment


            • #8
              This plane will go like stink. You don’t hear much complaint about insufficient performance, even at altitude. The comment I mostly hear from Bearhawk owners is: “I’ve got all I’ll ever need, and then some.”

              It’s got to be a very big step up in complexity and risk to design a one-off turbo system. If you’ve ridden in a Navajo at night you can get an appreciation of how hot they run (some guys lean by the shade of red glow from the pipes). They also spin at insane rpms. I had a chunk of a valve come off and beat up the turbo on the way out, at night in the Arctic, in the winter, three hours from a safe airport. Of course I didn’t know what the issue was, but I never liked turbos quite so much after that night. I’m not an experienced builder or even much of a mechanic though, so maybe for a guy that is , it’s not such a big deal.

              Comment


              • #9
                In my view the wide variation in price is down to certification (or not), and the number of new parts included vs used parts. Certification and new parts being much more expensive. The prices quoted above all ring true.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Regarding the turbo discussion, my impression from polling Bearhawk operators is that most do not really push the airplanes in cruise. While the Bearhawk is a lower drag airframe when compared to many others that can do what it does on the low end, there is a sweet spot beyond which the fuel burn goes up much faster than the airspeed, and that looks to be 110-120 knots for the original 4-place, and probably a few knots faster but not as much validated for the Model B and Five. Most folks aren't routinely operating over 10gph unless they are really in a hurry. They appreciate the gobs of power for the takeoff and climb, but it's likely you'll find what you need in normal aspiration unless you are routinely taking off from very high density altitudes. Seems like the turbo would really be worth it if you were looking to get 75% power out of the engine in high cruise.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    I was going to write exactly what Jared just did. For me, a 540 in a BH is a cheaper and simpler "turbo". Mostly better high altitude performance, and, occasionally when I really need it, I can takeoff shorter. Run LOP almost all the time. If you keep your build light, the heavier engine might not hurt, and might even help with useful load/CG.

                    The model 5 opens up other options. The heavier Continentals are very plentiful used, as are their props. I think angle valve Lycoming 540's are also cheaper than parallel valve on the used market. Maybe due to RV-10 popularity.

                    I am not connected to a local GA community. So for me, buying used was risky. I would be the "lackey" that buys the used engine everybody else knew was bad. So I bought a Bob rebuilt 540. No complaints about price or customer service.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Thanks everyone for your input! Really appreciate it and glad to know the 70+k prices I was seeing were not the norm for this build, was afraid I was going to have to scrap the build before it even began!

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X