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  • #16
    No, chrome rings are for steel cylinders. Impossible to break in chrome on chrome. Russ Erb bought what was supposedly a freshly overhauled engine. He had immediate problems with it during test flying. Going on memory here but had several problems including the wrong rings. Russ never revealed who he had acquired the engine from. I feel so fortunate to have a local highly experienced engine builder and having been able to participate in the rebuild. Just want to add that even the most respected engine rebuilders occasionally make mistakes. Thankfully that is rare, really tough if your engine is one of the mistakes.
    Last edited by rodsmith; 01-07-2022, 11:57 AM.

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    • #17
      My Bob engine delivery date got moved forward yesterday (Mike Called to see if February was ok for me) and I emphatically said yes.

      195hp O-360 that is tuned to MoGas!!!

      Bring it on
      N678C reserved
      Revo Sunglasses Ambassador
      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ0...tBJLdV8HB_jSIA

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      • zkelley2
        zkelley2 commented
        Editing a comment
        Angle valve?

      • Utah-Jay
        Utah-Jay commented
        Editing a comment
        zkelley2 yes, it is an angle valve O-360

    • #18
      RTV anywhere it can get inside the engine is not accepted practice in aviation anywhere.

      If you have RTV sealing the "filter", I'd very carefully remove the filter housing, very carefully remove the RTV so it doesn't fall in, and put an appropriate gasket and aviation gasket sealant on it.

      RTV clogs oil passages and it does break off.
      It wasn't sealing the filter as such, it had been trapped by the filter inside. Hopefully we got the last of it out now. I'm going to check the filters again soon to be sure.
      Nev Bailey
      Christchurch, NZ
      Builders-log
      YouTube

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      • Viking
        Viking commented
        Editing a comment
        Hey Nev, after reading this post as well as your previous post on this topic, I have a couple questions. When you say that you found RTV in your “rock catcher” filter, are you referring to the oil suction screen in the oil sump? Or the oil screen on the accessory housing? Hopefully you’ve already done this, but if you find particulate in the oil screen or spin on filter on your accessory housing, you should immediately (as in before further flight) check the oil suction screen on the sump as well. Hopefully you don’t find anything to cause any more concern, I just got to thinking about the terminology, which made me wonder which screen the RTV was found in, which made me wonder if you checked the other one as well. I have seen clogged oil suction screens in the sump cause oil starvation issues before, and the owners of the engines didn’t even know there was a screen in there that they should have been looking at.

      • Nev
        Nev commented
        Editing a comment
        Viking - thanks for your comment - I was referring to the oil screen on the accessory housing around the Vernatherm valve. We also checked the oil suction screen in the sump and that was clean fortunately. We then checked a few hours later and found them largely clean, and I'll do a repeat check again in a few more hours.

      • Viking
        Viking commented
        Editing a comment
        Ok, that’s reassuring. I figured you would have most likely checked both, I just wanted to make sure that one of them didn’t get missed.

    • #19
      Isn't Lycoming Service Instruction No. 1125D valid for specific use of approved RTV crankcase sealant? Alternate Crankcase Parting Surface Sealants.pdf

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      • #20
        RTV is a very generic term covering a lot of sealants and it is certainly not all the same.

        The sealant called out for the case halves is a thin liquid when applied and (IIRC) only "sets up" between the flange surfaces, critically without spacing the surfaces apart.

        It is not the same as the RTV that typically comes to mind associated with automotive use(I.E. more like a "paste" that turns into a rubber caulk when it sets up.) This type of RTV is frowned upon because it requires very careful application to make sure it doesn't "ooze" into the interior and set up(only to fall off into the engine later and plug up oil passages)

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        • #21
          It now makes sense, especially after reading the Lycoming bulletin. I wonder then why they're not using the approved methods when there's a large downside to it. Unfortunately it's not an easy thing to inspect the workmanship, and not easy to fix either, hence a huge amount of trust involved, particularly when we order these products abroad and have them shipped to our own countries. I've gone to a lot of trouble and care with my Bearhawk build to ensure that I've used the very best practices and approved products throughout, so this is disappointing to discover.

          I've already had a product recall on my EMag ignitions, and was very happy with the outcome. While it was inconvenient, they paid for the shipping and I had a new set back in two weeks.

          Same with my Vetterman exhaust which didn't clear the cowling. He made a new set and shipped it to me. Again, it was inconvenient, but no complaints at all, only a solid after sales experience to pass on to others.
          Nev Bailey
          Christchurch, NZ
          Builders-log
          YouTube

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          • Nev
            Nev commented
            Editing a comment
            I've had a couple of people PM and ask about my EMag experience. I've currently got 40 hours on the aircraft, and I've rarely thought about the Emags, which is to say they're great and working very well. Timing them is very simple. These are the six cylinder ones which were released about 18 months ago. I like the fact that they've got built in redundancy, and Brad has been very helpful in all regards.

        • #22
          Originally posted by Nev View Post
          It now makes sense, especially after reading the Lycoming bulletin. I wonder then why they're not using the approved methods when there's a large downside to it. Unfortunately it's not an easy thing to inspect the workmanship, and not easy to fix either, hence a huge amount of trust involved, particularly when we order these products abroad and have them shipped to our own countries. I've gone to a lot of trouble and care with my Bearhawk build to ensure that I've used the very best practices and approved products throughout, so this is disappointing to discover.

          I've already had a product recall on my EMag ignitions, and was very happy with the outcome. While it was inconvenient, they paid for the shipping and I had a new set back in two weeks.

          Same with my Vetterman exhaust which didn't clear the cowling. He made a new set and shipped it to me. Again, it was inconvenient, but no complaints at all, only a solid after sales experience to pass on to others.
          Out of curiosity, is there not an engine shop in NZ? I'd think it'd be cheaper that way than paying shipping across the planet. Maybe not?

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          • Nev
            Nev commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes there is. I was living in Hong Kong when I ordered my engine and went on the reputation from the forum. Now living in NZ again I now know of several reputable engine shops. Actually there's a guy who lives nearby, an aircraft engineer with a car racing background who has supplied several engines to friends with apparently very good after sales service. Unfortunately I didn't know of him at the time. There's also several larger established companies that service the GA and aerial work sectors.

          • Battson
            Battson commented
            Editing a comment
            Bob was able to undercut the prices of local shops considerably, at the time I did my research into engine purchases. The local shops are all setup for certified work and price accordingly. Shipping around the world was not expensive until very recently...

        • #23
          Originally posted by Nev View Post
          It now makes sense, especially after reading the Lycoming bulletin. I wonder then why they're not using the approved methods when there's a large downside to it. Unfortunately it's not an easy thing to inspect the workmanship, and not easy to fix either, hence a huge amount of trust involved, particularly when we order these products abroad and have them shipped to our own countries. I've gone to a lot of trouble and care with my Bearhawk build to ensure that I've used the very best practices and approved products throughout, so this is disappointing to discover.

          I've already had a product recall on my EMag ignitions, and was very happy with the outcome. While it was inconvenient, they paid for the shipping and I had a new set back in two weeks.

          Same with my Vetterman exhaust which didn't clear the cowling. He made a new set and shipped it to me. Again, it was inconvenient, but no complaints at all, only a solid after sales experience to pass on to others.
          Nev. if you note in the service instruction they only approve GE RTV 102 (which is white in color) and Lactate 515 (which is purple in color) for sealing the case sections where there is not a gasket. I am surprised your engine has red RTV anywhere. I would check with your overhauled about that. While these are experimental aircraft, I would expect any overhaul shop would follow the service letters that we would follow for certified aircraft.
          John Snapp (Started build in Denver, CO) Now KAWO -Arlington Washington Bearhawk Patrol - Plans #255 Scratch built wing and Quickbuild Fuselage as of 11/2021. Working on skinning the left wing! -Ribs : DONE -Spars: DONE, Left wing assembly's: DONE., Top skins : DONE YouTube Videos on my building of patrol :https://m.youtube.com/user/n3uw

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          • Nev
            Nev commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks John. I've now done two oil changes and the second one showed no silicon in any of filters. It seems to be trending in the right direction, so I'm going to do another filter check in a few hours and if all looks good then I'll run it as I would with any other engine with the usual precautions and health monitoring. But yes, it was certainly a surprise to see this and I suspect it's not limited to just Grants and mine but might be in common use by the engine rebuilder.

        • #24
          This was is the contents of my scavenge filter. My engineer wasn’t happy with it either.
          Attached Files

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          • Viking
            Viking commented
            Editing a comment
            Wow… that’s not good at all. I’m glad that your flight ended without greater issue! Red RTV like that has no business being used in areas where it could possibly get into the circulating oil. Unfortunately though, I can’t say that I’ve never seen it used like that before. I’ve also seen engines built up with incorrect parts. Some through negligence, and some due to honest mistakes.

            I’m really sorry to hear about your misfortune, and also really sorry to hear about how the problem has been handled so far. I respect the way you have approached this post, and I agree with others here that in the end, it’s important for safety that people are allowed and encouraged to discuss their poor experiences along with their good ones. This open discourse is exactly what allows a design to evolve for the better. There is a tremendous wealth of knowledge on these forums, and it would be a terrible shame to not foster an environment where people could discuss their fortunes and misfortunes, successes and failures for the benefit of the group.

            This post hasn’t affected my decision making one way or another, as I’m building my O-360 myself, but if I had recently bought or ordered an engine from ANY rebuilder, I’d want to know about any and all recent field service issues.

          • rodsmith
            rodsmith commented
            Editing a comment
            Having participated in my engine rebuild, I know there was no RTV used. The case was sealed with Lycoming's prescribed sealant (don't know the name) and silk thread. I asked about having Lycon machine the case for an O-ring and my engine builder said it was a waste of money, because done properly the silk thread goes to overhaul without a case leak.

        • #25
          Viking, Agreed there is a lot of evidence around the importance of Just Culture in safety management.

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