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New Bearhawk Model 5 - first flights

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  • #31
    I am pretty sure my B model will satisfy my needs. But if I were ordering a new kit............ Can't wait to see how the CG works out. Hopefully a few more inches.

    I also flew 4 different A/C types with different fuselage lengths. Totally different category A/C. The long versions always flew better.
    Last edited by svyolo; 05-13-2020, 02:38 AM.

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    • #32
      Can someone tell me what this airplane is covered with?

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      • #33
        What's the recommended HP range for the 5? If you wanted to spend the $, would an IO-550 or TIO-550 be good? or too much? What are the expected stall and cruise speeds? I saw 155mph TAS, but that's during test flights with a new engine. What's the VNE? Forgive me if this is posted somewhere, I'm new here.

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        • #34
          Covering is Poly-Fiber medium weight fabric.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ianrobb View Post
            What's the recommended HP range for the 5? If you wanted to spend the $, would an IO-550 or TIO-550 be good? or too much? What are the expected stall and cruise speeds? I saw 155mph TAS, but that's during test flights with a new engine. What's the VNE? Forgive me if this is posted somewhere, I'm new here.
            Mark just announced this thing so details are few and still being determined. He did note the lower engine limit is the paralalle valve 540, so 235hp, but hasn’t noted the upper hp range which will likely be limited by engine weight rather than hp.

            If it were me and I wanted to spend the money I’d be putting a IO550 on it. The TSIO550 would be slick!
            Scratch Built 4-place Bearhawk. Continental IO-360, 88” C203 McCauley prop.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by whee View Post
              The TSIO550 would be slick!
              Yes, it would, and would likely double the cost of the build.

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              • #37
                Mark et al,
                I was about to pull the trigger on a C180 rebuild project. The C180 has the capabilities I want/need (especially with WingX and Sportsman STOL) but the certified path is painful... And then you guys come up with this!! I feel this is almost certainly the aircraft for me.

                I do have a couple of questions though, to make sure it does what I would like it to do.

                1. What is the stall speed? I am after a sub 40kt stall speed. I notice you are still using the B wing with no increase in surface area, so for the heavier weight this may not be possible. However, a quick calculation, using the Bearhawk 4 place quoted touchdown speed of 40Mph@2500lbs, gives a touchdown speed at 3000lbs of 43.8Mph or 38kts, so this seems as though it is still possible? A thought on these lines, would the B wing be suitable for a 'WingX' type extension of 18-24 inches per side, in order to achieve the larger area and subsequent lower stall speed again?

                2. As it is the B Wing then currently,with long range tanks you can have 72 gallons. Are there any plans to modify this (perhaps it could be done with 'wingX type extensions?), I would really like 100 Gals.

                I was about to put in an offer tomorrow on the C180 (it comes with a second 182 of the same year as well) but this has now given me pause as the Model 5 could be exactly what I am after. If you have the answers to the above I would really appreciate them as soon as possible to help me make the decision. No time pressure at all..<GRIN>

                I do appreciate you may not yet have those answers yet and I have subscribed to this thread to watch it with interest, but if i could please ask, if you could post those answers up here when you do get them, it would be very much appreciated.

                I am very excited about this aeroplane, having essentially a C180, but experimental and with Bearhawks toughness has massive appeal to me. Too many options since I thought I had already made a decision on which way I was going!!

                Cheers
                Dave

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                • zkelley2
                  zkelley2 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I don't think many people are seeing 40mph touchdown. Certainly not at 2500lbs. I'm getting a full stall at 36kts with just me and fuel. At 2500lbs it's ~40kts. I think Batson has a slightly slower stall down in the lower 30's empty but he has a few mods. He can speak for himself, but I seem to remember reading that. Might be a bit better if you set the AOI a degree higher, but you're going to suffer at the top end.
                  Of course a fully loaded 180 can't do that either so...

              • #38
                Dave, call me in the morning to discuss. I can answer most of your questions but not here on the forum. 512/626-7886. Mark

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                • #39
                  So, firewall forward is 10” longer?

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                  • Mark Goldberg
                    Mark Goldberg commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I don't think so. The engine is tucked pretty close to the firewall. All the "extra" length I have mentioned is in the cockpit area (firewall to back of baggage area is 14") and over all length of the plane - 24" more than the Model B. Mark

                • #40
                  Mark et al,
                  I was about to pull the trigger on a C180 rebuild project. The C180 has the capabilities I want/need (especially with WingX and Sportsman STOL) but the certified path is painful... And then you guys come up with this!! I feel this is almost certainly the aircraft for me.

                  I do have a couple of questions though, to make sure it does what I would like it to do.

                  1. What is the stall speed? I am after a sub 40kt stall speed. I notice you are still using the B wing with no increase in surface area, so for the heavier weight this may not be possible. However, a quick calculation, using the Bearhawk 4 place quoted touchdown speed of 40Mph@2500lbs, gives a touchdown speed at 3000lbs of 43.8Mph or 38kts, so this seems as though it is still possible? A thought on these lines, would the B wing be suitable for a 'WingX' type extension of 18-24 inches per side, in order to achieve the larger area and subsequent lower stall speed again?

                  2. As it is the B Wing then currently,with long range tanks you can have 72 gallons. Are there any plans to modify this (perhaps it could be done with 'wingX type extensions?), I would really like 100 Gals.

                  I was about to put in an offer tomorrow on the C180 (it comes with a second 182 of the same year as well) but this has now given me pause as the Model 5 could be exactly what I am after. If you have the answers to the above I would really appreciate them as soon as possible to help me make the decision. No time pressure at all..<GRIN>

                  I do appreciate you may not yet have those answers yet and I have subscribed to this thread to watch it with interest, but if i could please ask, if you could post those answers up here when you do get them, it would be very much appreciated.

                  I am very excited about this aeroplane, having essentially a C180, but experimental and with Bearhawks toughness has massive appeal to me. Too many options since I thought I had already made a decision on which way I was going!!

                  Cheers
                  Dave
                  Dave,

                  The 180 with a wing-x is going to have around 186.4SF of wing area and a 2950 gross, while a bearhawk with the stock wingtips is 180sf. The wing-x adds a little more than 3' to the wingspan for that additional 12.4SF, and given that the bearhawk wings have more cord depth at the tips, and the designer has approved 16" wing tips that add maybe another 20", I suspect the total wing area will be somewhat close.

                  I don't think the designer is blessing a 24" wing tip, but anything is possible with money and engineering in the experimental world.

                  What the bearhawk is going to buy you is:

                  Much lighter than a 180, especially a wing-x/sportsman stol 180.
                  Lycoming. Unless you are a continental guy.
                  Huge baggage doors.
                  Skylight without STCs.
                  Much easier to get seaplane doors.
                  Patrol style windows on the bottom of the doors without field approval.
                  Much greater selection of props.
                  Gear that soaks up the bounce instead of throwing you back into the air.
                  Higher useful load (though if you are building a 180 from zero and can get it under 1650, that helps a lot)
                  Building from new instead of rebuilding from old
                  Bigger selection for avionics (you can buy an av-30 for the experimental market, but not certified, yet....)
                  Bigger selection of wheels/tires (you can buy Desser 31's on grove wheels for the bearhawk, while seaplanes north has been trying to STC this on the 180 for years)
                  Much sportier/lighter controls and a stick instead of the cessna/wing-x dump-truck handling.
                  You can buy super nice seatbelts without handing $1500 to BAS.
                  Aluminum tanks (no fuel bladders).
                  Don't have to buy cessna parts!!!!!

                  What the cessna would buy you is:

                  Possibly cheaper insurance.
                  Floats bolt right on and you wouldn't need to do any engineering.
                  Cessna has a trim-able stab which is nice if it's loaded incorrectly.
                  It's cleaner. (no tail lift struts, no shock struts, no flying wires)
                  Semi Fowler flaps.

                  I'd say build the airplane with the features you want and don't worry about the absolute stall speed between these two, as they are almost certainly so close that it surely has more to do with the pilot than the airplane.
                  Last edited by schu; 05-15-2020, 01:18 PM.

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                  • zkelley2
                    zkelley2 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I have been super impressed by how well the bearhawk landing gear forgives a bad landing, or absorbs the bumps.

                  • Mark Goldberg
                    Mark Goldberg commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Matt - the Model 5, Model B, and the Patrol all have about 186 sq ft of wing area out of the box. The original BH has 180 sq ft. With about 5 ft of chord - one foot wingtip "extensions" add 10 more sq ft.

                    The poster above never called to talk about a Model 5. Mark

                  • schu
                    schu commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Good to know that the B model has a little more wing. Maybe update the website, that's what I was looking at....

                • #41
                  Originally posted by Mark Goldberg View Post
                  Dave, call me in the morning to discuss. I can answer most of your questions but not here on the forum. 512/626-7886. Mark
                  Mark,
                  I will call you presently (hope it is not too late!). I have paused my offer on the C180 whilst I ponder this. Need to call you from Australia and align timezones.

                  kelley2, understood.

                  schu, Nice summary. I am aware of the differences between certified and experimental and I my dream aeroplane would be an experimental 185 but with another couple of inches width and a 42ft wing span. This might very well go close and I am sure it will be an interesting dicussion with Mark.

                  Cheers
                  Dave


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                  • #42
                    Just spoke with Mark, some great info. Now have to decide what I want to do. He has given me some great info including the ability to meet my requirements in a number of areas. Decisions decisions...

                    Thanks for your time this evening Mark, very much appreciated.

                    Cheers
                    Dave

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