New Plans Built Plans Holder

[Hercpilot]

Wanted to introduce myself in the plans-built sub. Currently wrapping my head around the scale of this endeavour! Will definitely take any input/feedback moving forward. I do have some sheetmetal experience but no real tube and fabric experience to lean on. We have some active EAA chapters nearby with some great Tech Counselor types with extensive commercial/military airframe and powerplant experience that I will be engaging! Thanks in advance!

Justin Walker
OKC, OK

 

[rodsmith]

Welcome to the forum! You will find all kinds of help here. As an owner of a mostly plans built Bearhawk, I can tell you it is a big project, but totally doable with enough determination.

 

[sjt]

You did not say which plans your have.

Alaskabearhawk pointed me to an Art ProFolio
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009R8XD?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_15&th=1

Probably your goto place for aluminum is just north of Dallas Tx
Aircraft Spruce - CENTRAL
215 Fairway Dr., Ste. 100
Roanoke, TX 76262


I found a 10 foot brake at an EAA chapter. Keep an ear out for which chapters have a 10 foot brake. Also consider chapters in the Dallas area.


This is my favorite website for learning from B-Spot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZ91l4iUtk&list=PLWY4f_BKuRl7UzNJb7MycGhk uhxiVyrIC



The router table is the most useful item in the beginning. I have a 2 hp router that has been modified to be used upside down.

I also bought from amazon a 1/2" upcut spiral bit

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012JF0DA?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_ti tle_2

I eventually bought a 1/4 upcut bit
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B096HD7753?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_ti tle_1&th=1


Your router will not survive unless you wrap in plastic and minimize run time.
In truth this is my second router. Guess what I did not do to the first router.


In general buy aluminum 12 foot sheets.

Although you start with enough .032 to make a template



This is the glue you need to attach mylar to .032 sheet.


Find a source of high quality MDF. I went to a cabinet shop to get 1 inch 4 by 8 foot sheet - "usually not exactly 4 foot"
Only use Lowes 3/4 if you can not find better.


This I what starting plans builds looks like:




This orange hammer is the only tool you need from habor freight
You will be tempted to buy the pneumatic nibbler. It will not be useful.




Also, do not listen to me. I buy every tool I can find.

My only real expertise in the group:
I can attest as to what a useless piece of crap some tool turned out to be.

This is my number one most hated tool:

 

[alaskabearhawk]

Welcome Justin! There are a bunch of resources available to you as an EAB builder. Looking at it as a series of smaller tasks instead of one HUGE project helped me sort things out. One bite at a time...

 

[Hercpilot]

Thanks for all the initial "getting started" advice! Keep it coming!

Should have mentioned it initially...I decided to build the B model.

 

[huntaero]

Welcome to the forum have fun

 

[geraldmorrissey]

Good to have another scratch builder going at it.

 

[sjt]

Keep your eyes out for one of these. It requires a drill press.




This is the most dangerous tool you will ever use. Sometimes I claim the most dangerous tool is a router - but this is the one that will get you. When you are using it there will be chips and dust everywhere.

If you have a nice drill press you will have set it to slow speed. That is what fools you. You think you are fast enough to reach in and brush away debris. You are not fast enough. Something to do with tangent velocity : V= R * omega


The advantage of this tool is you can cut lathe bits to the shape you need. This picture is for cutting the lightening holes in the spar web.

What I think I would have prefered to do was cut my mdf forms with a different shaped bit. You can make a die to press the flange in and also the mdf form to receive the die with the correct spring back.

mdf form
These holes are cut with above tool. What I would have done differently is made a lathe bit to cut a 55 degree?? recess for forming lightening hole flange.

This picture shows that I used a router bit. Router bits only come in 45 degrees. 2024 aluminum has an 11 degree spring back.
I only use 1 inch mdf not 3/4 mdf. The thicker mdf allows for cutting a flange on both sides to make right and left versions of ribs.
If you can not find 1 inch material then others have suggested going to Lowes and gluing two 3/4 mdf blanks together. Home Depot mdf is not very good.
Lowes Is a little better. A cabinet shop will have the good stuff form making counter tops.



Like many builders I used a press



Instead of those expensive pieces of rubber I would have made a mdf die with the matching shape to the above form. It would have required a different shaped lathe bit.
If you have access to a wood lathe you would make the plug (die) on the wood lathe. You would also incorporate the correct bend angle.


If you get Eric Newtons manual, (page 13 of the wing manual) then you will see he used plugs presumably made on a lathe. You would not actually need a wood lathe, just a grinder to make the correct
shape lathe bit.

 

[sjt]

If you do not like your neighbors get a blower fan from an old HVAC system.




I have two.

Just open the garage door.
Turn on the fan .
Turn off the fan.
Close the garage door and run away.


Someday the front of my house will be an industrial waste site. I am going to pretend I do not know how it happened.


Also, If you live in the south, the oak pollen gets all over the neighborhood cars. No one will know it is mdf dust and not oak pollen.

 

[Hercpilot]

Thanks for all the feedback! I'm tracking on almost all of it!

Question about the rubber forming technique...I have a 12 ton press. Any idea if that's enough for the elastoforming? I do have a 30A durometer pad.

 

[sjt]

In general 12 ton probably not enough unless you use mdf dies like Eric Newton .

If you cut the mdf with a circle cutter it is the same operation to cut a small mdf circle to use as a die - just with the opposite angle.

aluminum 2024 springs back 11 degrees. A 45 degree chamfer will not make a 45 degree flange.
Just use a second piece of mdf scrap big enough for the die.

You could even use table router to route a 45 onto your ~5 inch circle.
If you grind a lathe bit to the complement angle for the mdf form you would not need a router or wood lathe.

Bob just uses a stick to form the flange.

 

[sjt]

You can use a press and a piece of rubber to hold your form block still while you smack it.


In the picture to the side is a wood dowel.

I scallop out my mdf form and use the wood dowel to impress the flute at the same time I form the 90 degree edge

 

[sjt]

Desert Bearhawk years ago recommended this vise.

Back then it was $60 I think it now is $80 with free shipping

https://www.sears.com/craftsman-6-in-bench-vise/p-00951856000P?sid=ISxMP3xSOxGGxDTxSURF&gQT=1

It has reversible jaws for holding metal without damage

 

[sjt]

Someday you need a vise with smooth jaws to joggle a lip.

I ground a piece of 5/8 keystock to go with the vise. (Grainger)


Also got this idea from DesertBearhawk (although I think he accidently got hold of Tool steel - keystock is better for this job)


https://www.grainger.com/product/5VV11?gucid=N:NSaid:GGL:CSM-2295:7BE6NS:20500801:APZ_1&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwK CAjwn6LABhBSEiwAsNJrjriIRkxvlNcrCVWWdyyEjb51dJIrQA Iwlcb1D0nwg1L9UFKgv0YHuRoCvBoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds






You will also use a vise to bend 4130 steel

 

[brady.blake55]

Another great vise is the Vevor. I’ve become a Vevor addict due to stupid Tik Tok ads. I got this one.


https://www.vevor.com/bench-vise-c_...-base-two-way-jaw-ductile-iron-p_010738195556

I even bought my welder on Tik Tok. A multi process that does lift tig for $200. It’s a solid welder even though the price point would make you think it’s crap.

 

[sjt]

The sears vise has jaws that can be reversed with a smooth side - allen screws hold them in place.

Whichever vise you get you need to avoid marring the aluminum.

 

[sjt]

I use a 20 ton press. It is very handy for bending 4130.

 

[SpruceForest]

Plenty of YouTube vids, written material, and discussions here on the forum. The attached will get you going on using a router to mill the rib press blanks, a 20 ton Harbor Freight air-over-hydraulic press and rubber press technique to get the ribs mostly done, and a VAF-designed flange tweaking tool to wrap up. Lots of ways to throw money at this, but it seems to me that the process as described in the docs attached is a 'best bang for buck' if you want a better than factory rib.

Consider getting your wing spars formed before doing your rib tooling. It is time consuming to tweak all those ribs because your spars came out .125 narrower than your ribs (e.g., spars .063 narrower; ribs .063 fatter). Easier to make the press and forming tooling - to include rib joggles - the right size to fit your spars than the other way around.

On routers... consider picking up a 2.25 hp router that is easily disassembled and cleaned, such as the Dewalt DW618PK at about $220 for the motor and a fixed and plunge base. Take-out food container can be trimmed up to cover the upward facing cooling vents for aluminum work and the EVS has a thermal cutout that should help prevent burning the motor up if you decide to tape over the vents per Stan's suggestion above

Link to vid on finishing off the 032 ribs by flow forming and hammer work... note the Proto tapered nose hammers... worth the price. The 025 ribs will rubber press both lightening holes and flanges close enough to desired angle to finish with the VAF flange straightening tool, but the 032 stuff is best done with flow forming/hammer or hammer. Note: you do not need the fancy bench for flow forming/hammer work... a sturdy 10.5' (8.5' for 4B/5/LSA) plywood and 2x assembly bench will get you through all the prep for the wings as well as handle the ailerons and flaps. If doing a Patrol or LSA, a 34" table width will let you add on another 6.6' - 8' module and built up both wing spars and the fuse.

 

[sjt]

When ever possible (on sale) buy clamps from harbor freight
You will never have enough

 

[N3UW]

Welcome to the forum. I used a 20 ton press with rubber matts from mcmaster carr to form the lightning holes in the al ribs. Worked great. Have some videos on youtube that show my process. The rubber i used was Amber Polyurethane Sheet 1” thick 60a and [TABLE="cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0"]
[TR]
[TD]High-Strength Multipurpose Neoprene Rubber, 1" Thick, 12" X 12", 50A Durometer[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​
you need two sheets. I used one of each. You could use two of either. The neoprene is cheaper but the poly worked a bit better.

here is the you tube channel https://youtube.com/@n3uw

 

[sjt]

I used the same method that N3UW recommended. The amber 1 inch sheet is the one I found most useful. I think the amber one should be in contact with the aluminum and the black one on top of that.

Even so you you need all of the 20 tons to get the result you want.


His video on building a torsion table is also something I replicated.

If you make his torson table design you need a fan to blow the dust out into the neighbor's yard.
​



I added an array of 1/2 inch nutplate analogs to his table design to have an array of built in clamp locatons.
​





When you attach capstrips to spars you need outriggers to be able to work fom both sides of spar.






I can bolt to an array of locations.

 

[sjt]

I found the torsion table to be very useful

 

[sjt]

I thought John had a video but I guess I saw it on the forum

https://bearhawkforums.com/forum/be...4028-getting-ready-to-build-the-spar#post4473

 

[sjt]

I am pretty lazy. I added a vacuum system to John's design and plumbed my vacuum into the table.

I then added a remote control switch so that I could turn on the vacuum without getting out of my chair.



I exahaust the vacuum outside

The outlet box needs a contactor because a vacuum pulls to much current.

​​​​​​

I then got a chair with wheels so I could roll from one location to another.​​​​​​




As you can tell I am very good at doing anything other then building my airplane.

 

[SpruceForest]

If you do the fuse first...

Another good reason to have a 20 ton press...lots of 4130 work to do. You can home-brew a finger brake or spend another $500 on ready to go to work (or do the welding yourself and some about $150). The SWAG Offroad MIA finger brake for the HF 20 ton press is one of those 'if you can afford or borrow it' sort of things that makes all those U-brackets pretty fast and easy, as well as gets you some welding practice on beefier stuff. Eastwood makes a cheaper version that runs closer to $300, although we will see how long that holds up re: tariff-related price increases.

There is a small amount of welding and bracket fab in the wings, and way more of it in the fuse, LG, and the tail. Because I was producing all those brackets for two airplanes, I systemized the work and used some 1018 steel plate and bar stock to do the rams and bottoming dies for the press. makes forming those landing gear brackets with odd angles and cutouts way easier. Also one way to press out those longer 4130 structural closeout shapes such as the U that closes out the for and aft upper MLG legs.

And one of the enduringly cool things about the bear hawk is this can all be done with vise, form blocks, a good set of mallets, and some elbow grease if you want to forego the expense.





A partner tool to the finger press is a portable bandsaw (Milwaukee, etc.) in a router table... I've cut 1" steel and nearly all that 4130 needed after some quick dimensioning with a cutoff wheel on a grinder (get a good larger sized grinder and a couple HF 4.5" cheapies (Warrior in my case) cheapies which can be left set up for flap wheel trimming or ball end mills. I bought the best HF portable and their horizontal bandsaw/table combo for about $300 on sale... great buy and handles stuff that would take a good long time with other methods.

 

[Hercpilot]

Thank you....good stuff!

 

[Hercpilot]

Have a 30% coupon at HF! Generally speaking....what size/sizes do you recommend?

 

[sjt]

I have a bucket of the two inch clamps
and a bucket of what they call "6 in. Quick Release Bar Clamp"


The bar clamp come with the protective covers
You will have to do something for the two inch clamp


Not practical to buy them with coupon. You will have to wait for them to go on sale.
Coupon applies to single item.

 

[sjt]

The HF coupons only apply to a single item. The best usage of a single coupon is their 1 inch belt sander.

Get belts on amazon as you need them.
Fine grade for 2024
coarse for 4130


If possible wait for it to go on sale and then use coupon.

 

[sjt]

Home depot and amazon sell the 6x6 rubber plumbing repair material

cut out circles and rubber glue them to the 2 inch clamps to protect 2024 when clamping



The bar clamp comes with protective shoes.

 

[sjt]

Now that I think about it you might hold off on the clamps until you give some thought to your work area.

Those clamps worked for me because my table was a mdf board supported in such a way that I could work on the back side at the same time.


The clamps fit thru slots cut thru the mdf board.




My plan was to use a c-frame to back rivet by sliding under support mdf slotted board.






For this final operation the mdf slotted board is removed and the spar is accross the 2x4 overhang



If you have a helper you might just have them hold a bucking bar while you rivet with spar held vertically.