Mix Scratch Build with kits

[JohnS]

Hello all

I am trying to decide on a design to work toward and the patrol really appeals to me. Whether or not I like it, however, money plays a part. Is it a viable plan to scratch build lets say the fuselage and then buy parts kits for things that I'm just not interested in fabricating like wing ribs for example. It seems like it would be a good way to not only reduce my cost but stretch it out.

Also. How good are the plans. Do build manuals from Eric Newton along with the plans give a non engineer and first timer a pretty good start.

[Chewie]

I think that's a great strategy. If you go on the bearhawk website there are sub kits available for the Patrol under "parts", eg the ribs.
I'm an engineer but I think the plans are fine if you take the time to study them. First time builder and between the plans, Bob's and Eric's manuals, this group and a mentor here and there, it's a very doable challenge!

[Bcone1381]

I am a first time builder, not an engineer, fabricator, or mechanic. I started building a Patrol in March. I am working on the ribs right now. There is no question in my mind that everything is going very well, and will continue into the future. It has surprised me how much I enjoy building and fabricating.

I am not a good judge of the quality of Plans, because I have nothing to compare it to. The plans are hand drawn, and I like that very much. I think it makes it more personal...connects me somehow to Bob. With these plans, I feel confident that I can build the basic airframe without having to invent much at all. After the basic airframe is done, I feel confident I can use common and available parts to make it into a flyable airplane. But, the Firewall Forward, and Systems (Electrical, fuel, hydraulic (Brakes) pitot static, and instrumentation) design are incomplete.

There is no complete, exhaustive, systematic builders manual. Eric Newton's manual is more of a documentation of how he built his four place Bearhaw. Its not updated. The methods used to build Bob's designs seem to use well known standard practices for General Aviation aircraft. They are not difficult, or complex (So far). I think in the future, we will see improvements in documentation and instructions for Bob's designs.

Conclusion, If your motivation and satisfaction can daily be centered on building small parts you will have an enjoyable hobby and end up with a completed airframe. I recommend you pursue your dream, take the jump, and use this site. I echo Mark's comments on the purchase of sub kits and parts.

[JohnS]

Thanks for the replies. They're encouraging.

I would say that Im settled on the fact that the Patrol would be everything Im looking for. I suppose at this point Im doing a good thing by questioning and testing my decision because I want to be 100% commited and not fall short or loose interest. I am ready to do the work, and I know theres plenty, I just dont want to struggle too hard to find answers or frankly be left to make too many important decisions on my own. I'll tell you why. I'll enjoy figuring out how to make a part and doing it. But if the plans are too vague and I have to find my own design for something I run the risk of getting crippled thinking of the absolute best way to do it. I dont mind having to make decisions like that if I have the expertise, but without the right tools to make the decision I'd be sick over the prospect of making a mistake. Does that make sense? That why the focus on plans/support.

As a matter of fact someone almost had me convinced to go the Vans RV route because of all the experience and support out there. It almost seemed like a good idea, but I realized I was straying pretty far from what I really wanted in an end product. Not at all saying anything bad about Vans. I dont want to have to leave the planet as a result of getting on those guys' wrong side.

While Im at it I'll tell you what I like about the patrol.

I like the idea of tube and fabric.Seems less likely that structural failures can hide and in the unfortunate event that I bend the plane it seems like fixing an aluminum plane can be tough because of the way that everything is tied or even woved together. Seems like you have to take half the plane apart to make a repair. Just my impression. No expertise here.

I want to be able to do short CC flights. 140 MPH aint bad.

I am not worried about taking four poeple anywhere. Two people and bags is plenty.

I'd like to visit some out of the way places. If I can find a farmer that will let me land in his field Id like to be able to. And if he doesnt like it id like to be able to get back out. Airports are dropping like flies, at least here in NJ, so who knows. Maybe landing in grass and fields will become an even bigger asset. I have never done anything like I see on youtube. E.g. hopping from field to field and a riverbed in between. I dont know how you go about getting permission. But it sure looks like fun. Its got me way more interested in flying than any $100 hamburger.

Yes or No...the Patrol seems to fit the bill. Only thing is I need to learn to fly a tailwheel, but it cant be all that bad. Im not saying its EZ, but I'm sure I can learn it. Used to be all there was.

Shoot whatever holes you want in my ideas. Thats what Im looking for at this point. If it makes sense I'll thank you even if I'm dissapointed.

[Bcone1381]

I am ready to do the work, and I know theres plenty, I just dont want to struggle too hard to find answers or frankly be left to make too many important decisions on my own. I'll tell you why. I'll enjoy figuring out how to make a part and doing it. But if the plans are too vague and I have to find my own design for something I run the risk of getting crippled thinking of the absolute best way to do it. I dont mind having to make decisions like that if I have the expertise, but without the right tools to make the decision I'd be sick over the prospect of making a mistake. Does that make sense? That why the focus on plans/support.

From someone who is at the beginning stages of the build (as I am forming Rib Flanges) what I have found is I am using this website to get answers, Eric Newtons CD, Beartracks, plus one phone call to Bob. Also, there is some information on favebook, You Tube as well. Those of us here at Bearhawkforums.com are here to share what we have done, and ask questions, and you may find a person who reaches out on a more personal level into what I would call a mentoring relationship.

I have not seen anyone unwilling to help where I have gone. I have not yet called and talked with Mark at Bearhawk Aircraft, but understand he is a key information source for many. So, the Support for the Bearhawk is different...maybe better...for some. I must admit, I kind of would like a one source place with a declared industry best practice for each step in the process as opposed to something less than that.

But, the best way to choose a design is to define the mission you desire to fulfill, and pick a good set of plans to build. Like you, I am building a Patrol, and I don't see a better choice available in the market place.