Instrument Panel Planning

R

RAZ

New member
Hello All,
Does anyone know of a good Instrument Planning software that you can pull up the 4 place Bearhawk panel template from the data base and plan your panel layout?
Thanks,(first time poster and blogger!).
 
I used a company called UpNorth Aviation. He had the size specifications for just about everything electronic . We designed the panel and I sent him my panel for cutting. Everything fit perfectly. I should add this was on my RV.
 
I played with X Panel. You can download the free trial and give it a try. They have a 4 place template.
 
It would seem a good idea to verify the dimensions of a Bearhawk "panel" software. Compare it to what you actually have. The size of panel used by the factory has not changed over the years. But nonetheless checking would be wise. Mark
 
I plotted mine and out it into Solidworks then downloaded or made models of the instruments. A bit of work but you can measure the panel you actually have.
 
I have Panel Planner. I cant really say I'm excited about it, but I get along ok. The price on Xpanel looks pretty good to me. Once you have something like that to play with you can try a lot of different things and come back the next day and see how it feels.
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I used an old version of Autocad and there are free versions like Autocad Fusion. Worked good and was free.. The panel was measured & drawn to scale. Imported good images of the components from manufacturers sites then cropped them to be clean crisp images. Placed the images of the dynon, radio, transponder etc in & scaled them to the mfgrs dimensions,. They can be put in the drawing & moved them around to suit. I made a drawing block of the switches and misc items. Made up label blocks to emulate the engraved labels. I put reference dots at 8 inch intervals so when it was printed full size on a small ink jet that I could align the pages and tape. I had access to an engineering printer. I ran off a full size layout and taped it to the panel for critique. Kitplanes had a couple great articles on the logic of laying out a panel so I used that as a guide to organizing the panel.

This is a photo of a the first draft. The final panel is quite different. With the autocad I did a dimensioned layout for all the holes and cuts. A Dremel with the EZ change zip cut disc was used to cut the larger holes. The cordless Dremel with the EZ change zip discs is one of my favourite tools. We used the 90 degree Dremel drill head to drill the wing skins as well. We laid out all the holes on the topside ribs with masking tape & drilled 1/16" pilot holes. We checked the ribs for straight then back drilled the skins through the ribs with the rt angle Dremel. Partner on the out side drilled the hole to rivet size and added clecos. All the rivet holes are exactly mid flange.
 

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Here is a panel done in SolidWorks. The G3X 7" and 10" are down loads from Garmin. The back side shows the ports for the wiring harness.
 

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Glenn, most of the avionics manufacturers have DXF files of their equipment that you can download in place of grabbing images and scaling them to the "right size"... With the DXF files, everything will be perfect, including the layout of the mounting holes. Did this last year at OSH (seminar on designing panels with SolidWorks - the free EAA version). It was pretty fun, and amazingly easy once you got the general idea. Now I just need to learn how to do it in AutoCad Fusion, since I'm a Mac user, and SolidWorks is stuck in the WIndoze world...
 
I played around with ehangar.org (note the correct spelling of "hangar") as well, but they not only don't have a Patrol panel file, there appears to be no way to create one. I manually created a drawing in my presentation software, and imported pictures of the avionics I like, scaled them to the manufacturer's stated dimensions, and am using that for "rough sizing and spacing". Eventually, I'll re-do it the right way, in a CAD package. Right now, I'm leaning towards using OnShape, which is free and appears to work very well. (MIT is apparently using it for some of their engineering courses.) I'm still working my way through the tutorials.
 
Autocad Fusion appears to only be free for 1 year, then you have to start paying for it. At least that's what I experienced. Just about the time I felt like I was beginning to understand it and be semi-competent, my "free license" expired. See my post below for what I wound up using.
 
Coming from the certified world I am familiar with Garmin avionics and was planning to go that route in my model B, but it looks like Dynon dominates in the Bearhawks with glass panels. Perhaps one of the reasons is size? I'm still in the cardboard version of CAD, but it appears the Garmin 10" display will not fit in the Bearhawk while the Dynon and GRT 10" displays will. Can anyone that has already gone down this road, or has better CAD skills, confirm that the Garmin 10" will or will not fit in the stock 4 place/model B panel? I believe Sebastian and Bdflies both used the 10" in their 4 place and Patrol, but they also modified their panels.
 
I have a 10” garmin in my panel just fine, but I didn’t use the factory panel because it doesn’t exist in cad that I’m aware of and the vendor I used for cutting doesn’t have the option to mail them the aluminum.

Instead, I made a rough drawing of the dimensions in cad, drew the cutouts for everything, then submitted it to sendcutsend.com along with $100 and a week later, had the panel.

I built my boot cowl around this new panel, which allows me to change anything I want in the future and have a new panel cut that will fit exactly in the hole the old one came out of. Simply fire up cad, make new holes, then get another panel cut.
 
Here is the preliminary layout for the panel in my Patrol. The 7” Garmin just fits in the factory supplied panel. I’ll probably be dumping the analog VSI gage.

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edmo said:
Coming from the certified world I am familiar with Garmin avionics and was planning to go that route in my model B, but it looks like Dynon dominates in the Bearhawks with glass panels. Perhaps one of the reasons is size? I'm still in the cardboard version of CAD, but it appears the Garmin 10" display will not fit in the Bearhawk while the Dynon and GRT 10" displays will. Can anyone that has already gone down this road, or has better CAD skills, confirm that the Garmin 10" will or will not fit in the stock 4 place/model B panel? I believe Sebastian and Bdflies both used the 10" in their 4 place and Patrol, but they also modified their panels.
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I would think you could have at least a 10" and 7" screen in the panel. To compare your factory panel with my custom panel (plans built fuselage) mine is 10 3/8" high, the flat portion on top is 26" wide before the sides start curving down. Two Garmin 10" screens fit well. I wish I had built it a 1/2" taller, would have allowed switch placement below the PFD.

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May kit panel is 9.75" in the center tapering to 9.25" where the upper left corner of the display would be. With the fuselage tube across the bottom and a mounting tab above that I run out of room for the 7.9" high Garmin compared to the 7" high Dynon or GRT. Before considering a flange around the perimeter to attach to the boot cowl. I was more looking to confirm that I wasn't missing something and everyone running the 10" Garmin had made a custom panel. Not that I believe making a new panel and boot cowl would be difficult, just making sure I know what I'm getting into if I go that route.
 
Garmin 10 Inch.pdf

The Garmin 10" display at 10.85" x 7.82" would just fit in the panel of my Patrol as supplied from the factory. The 7" as shown in my previous post fits easily. The attached drawing of the 10"only shows the completely flat portion of the panel so there would be a bit of fudge room at the top corners.
 

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I was just studying this and a whole bunch of thoughts/critiques came to mind. If you want me to write them down, please let me know
 
The bezel on the Garmin seems excessively large (wide). The Dynon seems to take up less space.

I am in the process of doing away with my Avidyne IFD-540 and replacing with 2 Dynon Skyview Radios. That will give back 13 pounds and a 2nd radio for redundancy.
 

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I thought that you wanted to be IFR capable, are you going without a GPS navigator? I realize many of the systems and radios have built in audio panels and two place intercoms. I was under the impression for a four place intercom you needed a dedicated audio panel. I have seen several four place that don't seem to have an audio panel including yours and Nev's. On second glance is that a PM3000 for your intercom?

My current plan is a similar setup expect instead of the IFD-540 either an IFD-4XX or Garmin 6XX to leave room for an audio panel.
 
I now realize that I have no intention of flying in IMC or shooting approaches to mins... I have never used the Avidyne IFD-540 navigator, and never will. As it exists it is just a ridiculously expensive single COM radio... I will eliminate the Skyview GPS 250 and switch over to Dynon GPS 2020 for WAAS. Yes that is a PM1000 ICS and I will replace it with the Dynon intercom. We will build a cover plate for the IFD-540 and use that space for dual Skyview COMs.
 
I came to the same conclusion having a 430 in the blue plane, but never got around to taking it out. You might want to verify that the Dynon intercom supports 4 seats. I really like the PSE units that allow us to separate the conversation between the front seaters and the back, plus bluetooth phone and audio functions.
 
As of just over a year ago, the Dynon intercom is only a 2 place. Maybe they've upgraded it but it didn't sound like they were in a hurry to do that when I asked. I ended up going with the PM 3000 that I bought from Jared.
 
The GRT 10 inch sport and Horizon (my choice) both fit, as does the 10" Dynon. I am pretty sure the MGL and larger Advanced (my first choice) don't fit. Not sure about the Garmin but I think it does. My panel is not stock, but is stock in dimension. If I was going to use the stock kit supplied panel I might prefer two smaller panels as the larger panels will significantly weaken the stock panel. I don't know if that is that important.
 
I should have mentioned that the components I indicated for this upgrade were suggested to me by Aerotronics, my original panel builder. They state that I cannot use the ICS with dual COMS. I will need an audio panel as a switching source for the 2 COMS. I need to find out if the audio panel will isolate or not.
 
I have seen several four place that don't seem to have an audio panel including yours and Nev's. On second glance is that a PM3000 for your intercom?
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I went with the PM3000 because Dynon only made a two-place intercom. The PM3000 seems to work well.

Overall I'm very happy with my panel - it has everything I need, and nothing that I don't. I wanted a purely VFR setup with minimal redundancy. I definitely didn't want IFR. If I was going to change anything I would consider having a second radio like Rob. The Dynon radio has the ability to listen on the standby frequency which is great. However the actual button pressing to do this is an issue and can be frustrating.

Regarding redundancy, I've often thought that in aviation we place significant emphasis on having multiple redundancy in some areas while accepting a disproportionately higher level of risk in other areas. So my main focus was to ensure that engine and fuel system was reliable, and that the engine kept running in the event of a complete electrical failure. Other than that I can land very safely with no electrics.

It is very nice being able to have a full screen dedicated to a large moving map display and I find that is a huge improvement over map reading for situational awareness.
 
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I started out without an audio panel, just using an intercom and a home-made circuit to mix all of the various audio inputs that weren't radios. When a PAR100EX came along at a good deal, I installed that, and liked it much better. That was an audio panel that also had a remote vhf radio, which was controlled from the audio panel. It had so many useful features that in building my current panel, I wanted to install one even if I only had one radio. I couldn't find the same unit but I was able to find a used PDA360EX. It doesn't have the remote radio like the other one did, but both have the three-way isolate (pilot only, front seat only, all four), bluetooth for music and phone, optional separate music for the front seat and the back seat, and mixing of other audio sources. These days even the transponder has an audio output. If I ever add a second radio, already having the audio panel will be nice too. The long term plan would include a Skyview system and a Dynon radio.
 
I am not a plans/kit owner (yet), but I am cogitating! Does anyone have a useable panel sketch they could share for rough planning and placement purposes for the BH 5.. I won't build from it, just plan. I run Fusion-360 so it would held me to set up a CAD file for placement...any .dxf or IGES or STEP file would be useful. Absent that, a simple PDF that I can rough scale from would be great!

In fact mine might be tougher as I really want a left hand throttle quadrant and I am willing to do the work if it can be fitted.

Any help would be appreciated, Thanks.

Best Regards, Patrick.
 
Does anyone have the panel blank .DXF file for the 4-place? I am not sure if it's the same panel as for the Model 5, and I can't seem to find anywhere in the forums where someone has uploaded it. The model shown on the hangarflying website also doesn't match the shape of my current panel (I don't have the dropdown area for engine controls on mine). My current panel looks more like the one they show for a Model 5. At any rate, that website doesn't let you export to DXF, which kind of defeats the purpose.
 
Just a data point for reference. SendCutSend cut my panel for $40. Just sent them the CAD file and it showed up with all holes and bends in a week.

Panel.jpg
 
Jeff, can you elaborate how you used SendCutSend to do your panel for $40? Was it as simple as sending a dxf file, specifying the grade and thickness of aluminum, and it shows up on your door step? Would you be open to sharing your dxf file?

thanks!
 
That is exactly how it works. I used a dxf file that Virgil gave me as a starting point, then used Fusion 360 to design everything with CAD models downloaded from Garmin. Then sent SendCutSend the .step file of the panel.
 
N204jh here is the file used...
I also designed some custom brackets that combine the G3X frames with some rails to attach the center stack avionics rack. They did the two frames, and the panel for $140 with shipping.
 

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I need the dwg of the 4-place panel as a starting place. I have been using Front Panel Designer (free, not aviation specific) with some success, but it can be limiting for some things, so I have started teaching myself Librecad to escape the walled garden. I have a hobby CNC that works well for wood cutouts and engraving, but I am not having success with aluminum on it. I use it for rough prototypes in thin sheets of mdf before committing a design.
 
SendCutSend can accept a number of vector formats. I use .stp files to send to my slicer so that is my default export format from Fusion360.
 
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