Question about flap nose rib notches

[way_up_north]

I`m working on my flap nose ribs (4 place Bravo Plans) and on the plans it looks like it shows to put 3 notches on the flange to form the curve....

But many builder pages I`ve seen they have only put in 2 notches...is there a difference between Bravo and Alpha plans..not a big deal just curious.


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[nichzimmerman]

The "alpha" plans don't actually show notches on the flap nose ribs, but there is a note saying to notch as shown on the aileron drawing. The notches on the aileron drawing are spaced about 1.25" and when you apply that to the flaps, you get two notches instead of three. I would suggest more is better here.

[way_up_north]

I see what your saying ...if you follow the plans per whats written you would end up with 2 notches....

but it you look at the plans picture I posted, there are 3 bumps on the curve I think suggesting notches...and the 4 lines suggesting where the rivets go. Its not a big deal as this is not a load bearing area per-say....just thought it was worth a note..that what the plans show vs and what I`m seeing being built look a little different.

I looked in the wings section of Eric`s build manuals and he shows a picture with 2 notches...maybe builders are defaulting to his method also (page 57)

I think what happened here is Bob didnt want to have to duplicate the form block template with the flanges unbent for the flap like is shown for the aileron. I think the writing denotes the method to use but not the spacing.

[Bcone1381]

Look, I am an asshole. Way_up_North, I don't know how to tell you without offending you that that you set a bunch of red flags off in your last post.

Authority....who or what is your authority as you build your Model B? The Plans is your Primary authority. Its not a build manual. It's not what others are doing. Its not what I tell you or what someone on the internet says. Its not what you want, or what you think. Don't create a story as to what you think might have happened and why its okay to not follow the plans. If you are building a Model B then you must do so IAW the plans.

What you see others are doing and shared with us is not what your building. All the sources you sight are Model A examples.

Did you know that there is not yet a Model B aircraft flying? The demonstrator is a modified model A. So, we can still call the Model B a new design. It seems to me like the designer designed the Model B with a flap nose rib flange attachment to the skin with four rivets instead of three. I can assure you that others built their aircraft IAW plans for the design they are building.

Eric's Build manual was developed I bet over 10 years ago before the Patrol or the LSA or the Model B was developed. So, use his manual to help you build your Model B. But don't think he is teaching you how to build a Model B because he isn't.

[way_up_north]

Look, I am an asshole. Way_up_North, I don't know how to tell you without offending you that that you set a bunch of red flags off in your last post.

Authority....who or what is your authority as you build your Model B? The Plans is your Primary authority. Its not a build manual. It's not what others are doing. Its not what I tell you or what someone on the internet says. Its not what you want, or what you think. Don't create a story as to what you think might have happened and why its okay to not follow the plans. If you are building a Model B then you must do so IAW the plans.

What you see others are doing and shared with us is not what your building. All the sources you sight are Model A examples.

Did you know that there is not yet a Model B aircraft flying? The demonstrator is a modified model A. So, we can still call the Model B a new design. It seems to me like the designer designed the Model B with a flap nose rib flange attachment to the skin with four rivets instead of three. I can assure you that others built their aircraft IAW plans for the design they are building.

Eric's Build manual was developed I bet over 10 years ago before the Patrol or the LSA or the Model B was developed. So, use his manual to help you build your Model B. But don't think he is teaching you how to build a Model B because he isn't.

All your helpful and kind words aside.

if a alpha plans holder can post a picture of their flap nose rib plans...it would be helpful to new builders to note the differences we see from pictures and video of these alpha parts floating around on the internet ...the bravo flap nose rib is different from the alpha.

a new bravo builder may accidentally still build to the alpha method if they read the plans text and looked at alpha parts online..and used the rivet spacing of the aileron... many bravo builders buy Eric’s alpha build manual...I’m trying to clarify the differences if found

an alpha builder may want to use the updated bravo plans to make this part if Bob sees no problems with it..

making note of differences in the plans will help future builders... because as you say the build manuals are not updated.... the forum is the update to the manual

This forum is full of new builders making mistakes here and there... Its on us to put some light on these things... try to be helpful...


Thankyou

have a good day

[way_up_north]

The "alpha" plans don't actually show notches on the flap nose ribs, but there is a note saying to notch as shown on the aileron drawing. The notches on the aileron drawing are spaced about 1.25" and when you apply that to the flaps, you get two notches instead of three. I would suggest more is better here.

My assumption on the reason for the difference in the plans was not correct...your post lays clearly there are diffrences between the plans for this part... but this thread has led to an interesting prospect... alpha builders could adopt the bravo curved bend pattern for a better curve as you hint to..with Bob’s ok

[Bcone1381]

I apologize. I was rude. Hopefully my inappropriate attack will help readers will understand the big picture of the prolific numbers of A model four place Bearhawk, the very new B model with a totally different wing design, and that the Newton Build Manuals are no longer tied directly to the anything aircraft specific except the original four place what we now call the Model A Bearhawk.

Speculation, suggestions, and conclusions I see in post #3 can set a tone, permanently put information into the public domain, and can take builders off course. In the future, please ask questions if you are unsure. If we keep the data and information purified on this sight we help the next builder. And that was the spirit of my poor behavior.

So, understand that the "Newton Build manual" was dated 2005, making it a 15 year old manual. It is not a Bob Barrow product, but was reviewed in 2005 or so and approved by Bob. It also is not a Bearhawk Aircraft Factory product. It is an Eric Newton Product and I hope, but don't expect it to be updated. It's helpful merely to apply his techniques to a build. This forum is an not update to the manual.

[way_up_north]

Oh no problem...its all good...no big deal...I forget all about that sort of stuff...
its a big build....there will be lots of opportunity for me to get under your skin...lol


The changes posted below are mine to the Bearhawk Bravo nose flap rib...please only do changes with Bob`s approval....

I post them for education purposes only ....to draw attention to a potential item of interest.

I called Bob about this part...some of the rivets suggested locations were not meeting the edge distance rules...Im sure most builders would catch this ...but for new builders it might be helpful to see.

I`m going to post a picture of the changes I`m making to the plans on this part...



1st picture part as it looks on the plans

2nd picture....dark pencil lines show new suggested rivet locations......pencil arrows show notches moved to space them out more evenly..The center notch location is unchanged.

3rd....factory tour video...shows Bravo flap rib.... at 6:45 mark..used only as a reference to show what were talking about...(the video thumbnail just so happens to show a completed bearhawk bravo flap)



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Flap rib shown at 6:45 mark

[nichzimmerman]

Way_up_north, you bring up a good point here. There are a few places in the plans where edge distance doesn't seem to jive with everything we've been told about 2*D. It's worth noting to future builders where this is observed in the plans, as you have. It's also worth noting that 2*D is by no means a universal rule for aircraft designers. If you know the loads acting on your structure (Bob does, I don't) you can calculate actual edge distance required to ensure the edge is not the weak point in the structure. In places like the flap nose skin where the loads are very minor, very little edge distance is actually required.

Bottom line, while these changes to the plans are perfectly acceptable (assuming they were blessed by the designer), they are by no means necessary. Even so, if something in the plans leave you scratching your head, best to ask Bob about it. This is a good topic for posterity. Thanks to way_up_ north for bringing it up.