Approximate market value of newly completed BH LSA?

[Stefano]

As a BH LSA scratch builder, actually finishing and flying the airplane myself is only one of the possible outcomes. I do try to build and document to a level of quality that someone else might feel confident to continue the project if I had to quit. I think I'm good for another ten years maybe. But when I think about passing this project along, either as a flying airplane or not, it's more important that someone else makes good use of it rather than trying to recoup some money.

Hi Frank. How far along are you in your project? How many building -- not learning -- hours do you think you have invested so far?

Unless the state you live in subsidizes junior college welding classes, welding schools are expensive. I bet sheet metal training ain't cheap either. My point being that if a newbie wants to come to their Bearhawk project with the skills to build quickly, they would expect to first spend a significant amount of time getting training and shelling out some cash to pay for it. Otherwise, they are getting their training while they embark on their project. When we add up the hours to determine how much sweat equity we have in a completed plane have we subtracted the training time? Have we considered how much we saved in tuition?

Now I understand that the usual response to that is to pay 50 grand for a QB kit. If one doesn't want to spend that much and is happy to learn something new while building their pride and joy, then once you account for the time/dollar costs of your having learned a new skill I think you will find that there is sweat equity left in your plane.

But let's face it: as a rookie one-time builder my efforts won't ever be worth much in terms of dollars. Engine and instruments will be worth more than the airframe. I'm more likely to give the whole thing away to someone eager and able, rather than try to make a buck.

I am a huge fan of open source software and I contribute now and then. However, most highly-paid software engineers create something to solve a problem they have and then make it freely available for others that may have the same problem. (Most of the time just sending in a patch to an existing project.) It is not pure gift-giving, but it is sharing. The sentiment I am hearing from you about giving your incomplete project away is admirable, but I wouldn't view selling it "as making a buck." I would view it as recouping a fraction of the cost you have incurred. The discounted price is a great deal to the buyer.

As any good accountant will tell you, sub-assemblies have value. Though not as much as the total of all sub-assemblies in a completed airplane, of course.

As a second owner, I would pay more for a scratchbuilt aircraft if the builder showed me that they had formal training in welding or that a master welder was hired to inspect, or complete, the critical wing attachment welds. (I would like to see video of the work being completed.) Likewise, I would pay more if the builder was a partial scratchbuilder and purchased some of those sub-assemblies from the factory like spars or the basic fuselage.

Frank, I just found your project on these forums and will read up on your progress.

[Utah-Jay]

Building a plane can be born of different goals.

1) The building process, whether it is a scratch or a QB. Some are willing to take on bigger tasks, to some a QB might actually be an equally intimidating venture based on the skill set they possess.

2) To others the build process is just a means to an end… Getting in the air.

I am in group number 2, I want to fly. The finished build will be rewarding, but it is not what drives me.

I chose to build a QB BH because it fit my mission needs better than any other option out there. I nor anyone else can make decisions for others, but I can tell you what went into my decision.

I wanted a plane that would be reasonably fast, be able to get into short strips (considerably under 1000’) and be able to get back out in afternoon high DA’s in the mountains. The BH met the criteria, I also was banking on MOSAIC having passed/been approved prior to the end of 2022. That did not work out well. I went with the two seat Companion and maxed out at 200hp to stay under the theoretical new MOSAIC “Light Sport” perimeters. I did a lot of research about the BH build, had a pretty long digital dialog with a former BH builder who in the end did not finish his project. He did scare me a bit when he started detailing the need to fabricate parts unlike other kits on the market that are more of just an assembly process. He was right, there is a lot of fabricating, I had zero skills but I did have a lot of great help in the form of ideas and instruction from current and former builders at my local airport. Even with the QB kit, there is a lot to do and not much direction, by this I mean it’s not like the BH comes with a detailed instruction manual. Rumor has it someone is in the process of writing a manual.

Deciding to build a plane is a huge time commitment, as others have said in this thread it can be a stress on many parts of your life.

I am not sure the percentage of people that start a build that actually finish it, but it is a huge challenge. IF you start and finish it will be a huge accomplishment.

Back to market value… Just like buying a house, I think you need to build a plane thinking of selling. Build it with a bit of a buyers viewpoint and you will be in good shape. Choose a model that will have a larger market. Of the BH options, I would think the LSA would have the smallest market. If you are constrained buy building costs and the LSA is all you can swing, then build the LSA. If you have a family, the 4 Place or Model 5 are in order. If it is just you or you and a spouse, then the Companion may be an option.

Jump in, but know the water is deep.

[predragvasic]

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  #10.1
  Stefano commented
  03-31-2023, 11:45 PM
  It is not a priority for me, but it is an affordability issue. I.e., having a reasonable resale value is one of my requirements on my list. The question I have to ask myself is 'can I justify paying 50 grand for a QB kit for a plane that may have a resale value of $50k?' All other costs that I bear on engine, interior, avionics, etc is not even covered...ignoring my labor, too. That question is related to resale value. But I do get your point about a scratchbuilt plane having lower resale value since the welding chops of the builder can be a life and death thing for a second owner. For example, the wing strut attachment points are of critical importance.

Quickbuilt will never affect the resale value. When you spend on quickbuilt, you are simply paying someone else to do the work instead of yourself. Same goes for kit vs. plans. You’re just paying others to do your own work, and the result will essentially have same value.

Homebuilts are very difficult to sell. Nobody knows how well did you build your plane, even after you put 800 flying hours on the airframe. When buying a home built, they are essentially placing their life and lives of their family in your hands.

If you are asking about the resale value of a finished Bearhawk, then you shouldn’t build your own plane. Buy one instead, even if it means borrowing. Going into home building, you should never expect the market value to be greater than the cost of parts (materials for the airframe, engine, avionics). Your labour will always have zero value.

About the only exception here are those rare “Oshkosh Grand Champion” cases, when the workmanship is immaculate, and the interior is ultra-luxury. And even those are usually much more common with fibreglass aircraft, which sell better because they look better.

[Stefano]

Rumor has it someone is in the process of writing a manual.

Do you mean specific to the Companion or the LSA? I bought the three volume Bearhawk Builders Manuals from https://bhtailwheels.com/

[Stefano]

Quickbuilt will never affect the resale value. When you spend on quickbuilt, you are simply paying someone else to do the work instead of yourself. Same goes for kit vs. plans. You’re just paying others to do your own work, and the result will essentially have same value.

Sure is interesting how the opinions differ on this subject.

If you are asking about the resale value of a finished Bearhawk, then you shouldn’t build your own plane. Buy one instead, even if it means borrowing. Going into home building, you should never expect the market value to be greater than the cost of parts (materials for the airframe, engine, avionics). Your labour will always have zero value.

Are you talking about homebuilts in general or just Bearhawk homebuilts? I have seen RVs sell for significantly more than what the builder paid for the kit, engine, etc. Some have quite a few hours on them, too.

[Utah-Jay]

Do you mean specific to the Companion or the LSA? I bought the three volume Bearhawk Builders Manuals from https://bhtailwheels.com/

I am unsure about the specificity of the “manual”, but I would think it would be pretty Colsaerts across the board and way better than nothing.

I disagree about resale prices based on the previous 2-3 year market. Personally I would rather have an experimental whether I built it or bought it, certified is just way to expensive to work on, upgrade etc.

I believe the plane will be worth more than the sum of the parts, the real issues is the market size hence I alluded to the model choice above

[JayDub]

I'm more likely to give the whole thing away to someone eager and able, rather than try to make a buck.

Hi Frank. I know you are no where near that point but keep me in mind of that time comes I'm kidding...not really. I'm just 2.5 hours north of you in WY. I've watched your eaa log and it looks like you are doing top notch work. Keep it up.

To prove your point, I'm finishing a Kolb Firestar kit (almost done) that a guy had over $20k invested into it and he sold it to me for less than $.15 on the dollar. If I didn't buy it he was going to take it to the scrapyard. He had some health issues that won't allow him to fly alone. Anyhow, he is thrilled to see the photos as I complete it and really wants to see it fly. He had invested a bit of time and obviously money into it, but he just wants to see his baby fly and be enjoyed. He is thrilled someone is doing it. I'm thankful to be the one to do it.

The first kit plane I built was a fat CGS Hawk Arrow. I had over $12k (1991 dollars) into it plus my build time. I flew it for over 450 hours in 7 years and could only get $5k out of it. I think it's rare to make money building when you consider your time. Some models are better than others and the BH-LSA seems like a winner as more folks like me need to stick with LSA due to reasons out of our control. That should help market prices.

[Frank]

Thanks JayDub let's keep in touch! I'm working on the spars and it all still seems do-able. Who knows what the future holds? But one way or another we're gonna (eventually) see this baby fly!