Ed Welfred mod/ VR3 kit

[TTAero]

So I was prepping tubing and came across some extra tubing in my VR kit that weren’t on my VR3 drawing hanging on the wall. Scratched my head for a minute then dug into a set of drawings that were in the box that I assumed all this time were the same as what I had a hanging in the wall. Nope! They depict the “Ed Welfred mod”. I called VR3 and Don couldn’t find any notes to as why this mod exists, but it was done at the request of a customer in the past and has been left in the kit. I was assuming maybe it was float related, but not sure. It looks like the seat mount area and the first bay behind the engine get a different tube arrangement, but it’s a mystery why. So I come to you guys that are much more knowledgeable than I to get your opinion. I will attach the VR3 per plans and the mod version. It is tubes 161-175 that are different from bobs plans. Do you think this makes the airplane tougher in the landing gear mount area ? Better for off airport abuse? I don’t want to add things for no reason, but I also don’t want to miss an opportunity here to build a better fuselage. Thank you.

[BravoGolf]

Is this due to the Engineering Notice concerning the landing gear?

http://bearhawksafety.com/Patrol/change0314.html

[TTAero]

I don’t believe so because I have plans #372 and that looks to be corrected.

[geraldmorrissey]

Call Bob and report back.
Gerry
Patrol #30

[TTAero]

I will if I don’t hear back from Ed when I get to that point in the next week. I’m trying not to bother Bob until I really need to. This seemed to be something between Ed and VR3

[BravoGolf]

What I was trying to say is what plans was VR3 working from? Are their plans from an older set? I have a VR3 tubing set and the engineering notice is not incorporated. Although mine predates yours it would be worth asking VR3

[TTAero]

The notes say 051. I did speak to Don at VR3. He said it was a mod that Ed did that they included in the kit. I bought mine about 2 years ago. Finally started putting it together with the drawings he emailed me. When I found the extra tubes I opened the drawings in the box and found the difference. Don said he couldn’t find any notes on why, but just includes them in the kits. I’m really trying not to bother Bob yet until I hear back from Ed. I sent him a pm this morning.

[TTAero]

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[Mark Goldberg]

FYI - Bob does not work with VR3 tubing company. They do not get updates and support from him because of how they treated him. Mark

[TTAero]

I didn’t know that backstory , I probably wouldn’t have used them. If I don’t hear from Ed I’ll build to original plans. Now it’s becoming more of a curiosity thing on why the mod.

[Bcone1381]

At the very least seat tubing around the seat area was modified. Screen shots are from Patrol Plans #303 p.17 and your VR3 photo. I marked only two tubes on your VR3 drawing I saw that are not on my airframe or plans that I noticed. I saw more, but time is ticking and so I leave it for others or you to discover and ponder.
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[Bcone1381]

You might appreciate a shot of a Kit fuselage. I'll call it the C-S Bulkhead (edited 8-15: plans cals it Station C-S) .....or the seat and flap handle support.... it is difficult to visualize from the plans. You can see the seat track clips on top of the C-S bulkhead outboard of the cluster. The stick is in front of it. A piece of tube is slid inside of the left side top tube of the C-S bulkhead (Photo faces aft, so the left side is on the right side of the photo....confusing) and welded to the to support the flap handle assembly.

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[TTAero]

Thank you so much for taking the time to share the pictures. You gave me a good idea to id the changed tubes. I will attach a photo with the changed tubes highlighted in pink. Seeing the kit , I see my plans match, now I’m really just curious about this modification. 06A732D3-DA39-4B8C-92FE-4401CB40A441.jpeg

[David Swartzendruber]

It appears to me that the goal of this modification may have been to change the shape of the door opening.

[Ed Welfred]

Dave is correct. The engineering change came out about the same time that I was ready to start my fuselage so I wanted to beef up the fuselage but also change the door opening configuration. I have short legs and will have the seat all the way forward which means I would have to move the seat back to get in and out comfortably. I asked Don at VR3 to incorporate the 4 place tubing around the door and gear points. There is a little weight increase over the engineering change but the frame around the main gear would be rated at the 4 places 2500#.

The frame under the seat is very beefy but travels through to the side rails where the flap handle needs to be mounted. Making the flap handle to work around this tube is time consuming. You may want to stay with the original plans for the area that Brooks has labled C to S.

I have gotten to know Don very well and he does stay on top of all changes that are made for all of the different kits that he offers.

Don also drilled holes in my tubing at most of the weld points so heat did not build up as much inside any closed tubing.

I am off working on a hanger this year and so don't get back to the forum as often as I used to.

Hope this explains the mod that I asked Don to do.
Ed

[TTAero]

Ed, thank you very much for shedding light on all this. I am interested in this door mod. I’m staring at the 2 versions trying to envision the hinge line and how the door opens in relation to the lift strut. Would you mind sharing some photos of your finished product? I’m actually taller, but not very bendy so I’m thinking it would help for swinging my legs into it. I’m doing some flying in a Citabria and I have to do the awkward contortions to get in it so now I’m thinking this may be a good idea. I will keep the seat perch to original print from what you explained about the flap handle. Brooks, thank you for the pics and input as well. I’m really grateful for this community and all the knowledge here.

[Ed Welfred]

The door opening should be the same as a 4 place so you could go with a split door and hinge it like the 4 place builders do or go with a single door and hinge it at the top. I hinged the doors at the top and raised the bottom door sill about 2 inches above the frame. At this point I do not have my wings completed so I do not know it the doors will clear the wing struts ( it will be close ). If you go with the mod I would suggest you not build the door or door sill until the wings are mounted.

I will load pictures if or when I figure out how to do it.

[Ed Welfred]

Door mod pictures.