Possible 4 place builder

[Globnaspawn]

Hey guys and gals,

I'm a potential new bearhawk builder. Trying to make the decision between a bearhawk 4place and a christavia mk-4. This will be my first build. I'm looking to try and get some information and will be posting newbie questions before jumping into a project. Thanks in advance for the advice it is much appreciated

[jaredyates]

What kind of factors are you considering between the two?

[Chris In Milwaukee]

Welcome! From what I know of the Mk-4, it's more akin to the Wag 2+2. A bit lighter (2200 pounds), and uses a 150hp engine.

The Mk-4 has a wood wing, where the Bearhawk has a metal wing. Both are tube and fabric fuselage, otherwise. Mk-4 appears to have spring steel gear, where the Bearhawk is Oleo gear.

The useful load appears to be comparable at around 1100 lbs, although you can probably get a bit more out of a Bearhawk depending on how light you build it. I haven't seen a lot of folks building them, although there is a Yahoo group for them that I subscribe to that sees some decent traffic. Most that I've seen there is Mk-I, but there are a few on the Yahoo group that are Mk-4 guys.

I don't think you could go wrong with either one. I guess it depends on what type of flying you'd like to do, and more important, which building materials you prefer or are most comfortable with. I chose the Bearhawk, myself.

With Bob Barrows supporting us and the knowledge of the Bearhawk community, you certainly won't lack any support on this end!

~Chris

[Globnaspawn]

I'm wanting an aircraft that I can plans build has a decent useful load and can carry my wife and I and our baby. I'm looking for decent fuel economy (io-320 or io-360?) possibly. And something that I can build without going into debt. I'm currently debt free and plan to stay that way so I will be building as funds allow while throwing a little to the side each month for the big ticket items such as avionics and engine. My main concerns with the bearhawk is cost both of the airframe (not sure what the cost of plans building is I've seen widely varying numbers) and operation (would prefer to go with a lycoming o320 but am not sure how bad I would be hindering performance. My main concerns with the christavia is looks (sorry but the bearhawk is just a better looking bird), and durability (I will be storing the aircraft outdoors once complete and it is tube and fabric). I don't really have a preference on building materials other than durability because I will be learning either way I go. One small concern I have is finding a sheet metal brake. I know someone who probably has one for his business but his shop is an hour away so I'm not sure how feasible that would be.

[EricP]

Wow, I think you pretty much described the Bearhawk. You can plans build the whole thing but it is great to have AviPro for items you need. I don't think you can do better than the Bearhawk for utility/useful load. And of course I agree the Bearhawk is better looking! So far as tube/fabric goes I don't know if that is a real concern as there are plenty of fabric aircraft that have been out there for years.

The fact that the Bearhawk does not use wood in the contruction is a big plus in my opinion. It has a much more advanced metal wing than the older wood wings planes. Size is very nice and is a "real" plane with the full size of a 4 place such as the 172 or Cherokee. In fact I think it is better... but that is me. You can put an O-320 on it (this is from Bob Barrows, the designer) but I personally think the O-360 is a better choice for a "minimal" engine. However, if money is the issue I think a Bearhawk with an O-320 is a perfectly good option.

My building partner and I have been building a plans built 4 place Bearhawk and are doing exactly what you have described, we build as money and time allow. An advantage for us is that Brent is a professional fabricator and has the shop space and tools as well as very advanced building skills. But you can proceed at your own pace and as money allows. We built the wings first and then the tube fuselage. We had about $15,000 in it by the time we had the wings and fuselage structurally done.

So it's your turn to jump in now!

[Bcone1381]

Globnaspawn,

You might consider the durability of a metal wing over a wood wing for an aircraft that is stored outside. What is the market price of an O-320 compared with an O-360? I think they are about the same. Overhauls cost sure are. Fuel cost is controlled by the PIC.

You can build either airplane debt free, and it sounds like you have the right attitude by planning for the big ticket items.

If choosing the Bearhawk, Start with buying plans and a sheet of 3/4 MDF tomorrow. Don't wait until you think you have learned everything there is to know about building...otherwise one will never start the process. Learn as you go.

The first step is to build form blocks made from the MDF for the wing ribs. Your next big purchase will be sheet aluminum for ribs and spars. That cost was not that bad in my frugal opinion. You will then be set for up to a year until you are thinking about the next big step.

Lastly, The successful builders have a common thought process when building....they get focused one day at a time at making one part at a time. They make that part with excellence, and have a sense of accomplishment when its complete. They keep making parts until no more parts are in need of fabrication. Then they start the assembly process. They might feel a sense of remorse when they are complete with one series of tasks where they have had great success. They might even feel a bit of fear and doubt moving onto the next task, but they study, seek mentors, and dive in despite uncertainty. You might be feeling some of this right now. That is normal. We will make errors and we call ourselves out on them while giving ourself some grace and patience to throw it in the scrap box and start over.

[tailwind]

I think the Bearhawk will have better resale value when you decide to move in another direction.

[Globnaspawn]

So I've been moving forward with the idea of building a bearhawk. Wanting to order plans next week after the paycheck comes in. I figured I would start with the wings. Does anyone have a recommended tool list to complete the wings? Also is anyone building in or around Puyallup Wa? Thanks everyone for the support thus far. It's definitely been a factor in deciding which airplane to build.

[sjt]

Just go to https://www.youtube.com/user/dbottita/videos and watch some of Dave's (DesertBearhawk) videos. Find out where harbor freight is and buy a dead blow orange hammer to go with the 4x8 mdf sheet.

Also go to https://www.youtube.com/user/n3uw/videos - John Snapp (n3uw) has some nice construction videos too.

aircraft spruce sells from both the east coast and west coast if you are near one of their locations. If not they ship the aluminum sheets rolled up for anything less then equal .032

You will need a drill press with a circle cutter for some of the holes. Do not mess with electric shears just get a big pair of straight aviation snips. For rough cutting mdf a hand jig saw is nice.

This forum has a few layouts for getting the most out of an aluminum sheet. Bending the outside flanges for ribs is done with a dead blow orange hammer. Everyone has their own way of bending the round flanges.

The cheapest way is a stick. If you have a wood lathe you can make a round die for a press. If you have a 20 ton press you can use rubber to press round flanges.

[Bcone1381]

Find a used Shopsmith with a Band Saw attachment. This one tool will give you the Band saw, plus a drill press, a disc sander, a table saw, and a wood lathe.

Lee Valley Tools sells a circle cutter attachment for a router. With this tool, I am getting dead accurate circles, am not using a fly cutter, and will make all my flanging plugs. You might consider using the Routering Methods that Glenn Patterson shared with us a while ago found in this thread. A pdf file is included in it's first post.

http://bearhawkforums.com/forum/tools-technics-and-best-practices/233-routering-methods-for-bearhawk-jigs-dies

[N3UW]

So I've been moving forward with the idea of building a bearhawk. Wanting to order plans next week after the paycheck comes in. I figured I would start with the wings. Does anyone have a recommended tool list to complete the wings? Also is anyone building in or around Puyallup Wa? Thanks everyone for the support thus far. It's definitely been a factor in deciding which airplane to build.

I am building a Patrol from scratch and just moved out to Everett, WA. I have the plane up in Arlington. I have moved all the parts into my hanger but I have not set up the shop yet. You are welcome to come up and visit if interested. I have just about finished the left wing and have finished all the ribs and spars.