Rocky Mountain First Timer

[bznhx]

Hello all & glad to be here!

Long time reader & consumer of all things experimental; finally decided to enter the chat. Currently based under the Yellowstone Delta and in the early stages of evaluating what airplane to build. Strongly leaning towards a BH vs. the competition from other kits. I saw a picture of Bob’s LSA that clipped a power line, which pretty well sold me. I’m reading everything I can get my hands on at the moment.

I’m evaluating the LSA vs. Patrol, both would fit my mission well. The limitations of the LSA are acceptable given my estimate in build & operating cost differences, especially with the rollout of mosaic. No more 1,320 lb LSA limit. Although I think I’d have a challenge keeping a LSA light. I want some toys, autopilot for example…

Ability to fit amphibs is appealing, but not critical. Seems like the LSA (especially with a Rotax) could be good on Zenair 1450’s, but perhaps this is a fools errand. It would seem that nobody has taken up the challenge of fitting a Rotax. So, I don’t know what I don’t know. I’m not float rated, yet, but would love the ability to do so in the future. If it’s a bad idea, I won’t be offended. I’ll just focus on the Patrol!

Anyhow, looking forward to the conversation & learning more!

[Utah-Jay]

Welcome

Put a Rotax on a Patrol and you have the best of both worlds!!!

Jump in the water is warm

[bznhx]

Thank you!

Definitely thought about that as well! The only hangup is the cost difference between the two. With full tanks, both carry the same payload, hypothetically, haven’t done CG calcs. I suspect the LSA would run out of CG before hitting gross wt. Is there a good resource to experiment with CG based on different options? I don’t have a set of plans, yet. The hand would then go to the Patrol based on cruise speed & flaps. At the same time, this would be a long-term investment. Buy once cry once I guess!

Anyone know if BH does a non-QB option? Certainly willing to buck some rivets myself, but I know my limits and I’m not ambitious enough to scratch build.

[Utah-Jay]

Thank you!

Definitely thought about that as well! The only hangup is the cost difference between the two. With full tanks, both carry the same payload, hypothetically, haven’t done CG calcs. I suspect the LSA would run out of CG before hitting gross wt. Is there a good resource to experiment with CG based on different options? I don’t have a set of plans, yet. The hand would then go to the Patrol based on cruise speed & flaps. At the same time, this would be a long-term investment. Buy once cry once I guess!

Anyone know if BH does a non-QB option? Certainly willing to buck some rivets myself, but I know my limits and I’m not ambitious enough to scratch build.

Buy Once Cry Once… Just get the QB kit and don’t look back.

I have flown Virgil’s Patrol and it is SWEET, put a Rotax 916 on it and it will be even better

[arborite]

I’m not so sure the 916 is the right choice for a Patrol or an LSA. It makes 160 hp and is turbocharged. Unless you need high density altitude performance, 160 hp is a little low for a patrol. A basic Lycoming O-360 makes 180 with 200 available with a few mods. I know the experimental supercub guys are doing it with success, though. Maybe the weight savings is worth it.

for an LSA, the naturally aspirated Rotax looks like a good choice. I know Virgil is working on it but not sure one is flying yet. Putting the160 hp 916 in an LSA will put it beyond design limits on power and probably Vne. The LSA doesn’t have balanced elevators since it’s slower. I don’t think Bob wants you going that fast in an LSA.

I looked at putting a 912 or 915 Rotax in my LSA but was already well down the Continental O-200 plus route and decided to stay the course.

[bznhx]

I wasn’t even considering the 915/916 for the LSA. I think you’re correct that it would exceed the design limits. If I were to go the LSA route, I think the 912 would be sufficient. A 914 would rip and likely be within design limits. Adding floats to either platform would have to be a consideration.

The incentive to explore the Rotax comes down to three things. The engine appears to come very complete for the price. Especially compared to a new Continental or Lycoming without accessories. I like that they have a slipper clutch. Might save the engine if the prop smacks something. I am at high DA (MT, ID, WY) so forced induction would be beneficial.

I’ll be eagerly awaiting to see if someone wants to take the plunge before I get around to it. Not opposed to being a guinea pig though!

[paulodonnell]

I'm building a Patrol SP here in Ireland, planning on fitting Clamar Amphibs later. For my motor I'm fitting a UL520T which weight wise is a perfect fit (with Bob barrows blessing) and has all the advantages of modern fuel injection and turbo normalisation, Fadec etc. and 220 HP.!
I have a pal building beside me, a Sling HW with a Rotax....it's a teeny weeny thing compared to the 5.2L six cylinder UL, needs a gearbox (that he's already had to change) and even cost more to buy.... ~Belgium isn't too far away for me and the folks at UL are sooo helpful, but perhaps its a different story in the U.S.

[Utah-Jay]

So I have spent a lot of time talking about this stuff with Virgil. 915/6 on the LSA is a HARD NO!!!

But the 916 on the Patrol, especially at your DA’s is perfect. Virgil via his build assist will be building a 916/Patrol for a buddy of mine early next year. Virgil is a big believer in the combo.

If I was gonna build another plane it would be a 916 Patrol…. And it would be fine as my wife would likely divorce me so I would not have to worry about the side by side seating any longer

[bznhx]

I’ve looked into UL Power Engines, seems to be a good product but limited adoption in the US. Although I suspect that they will become more prevalent in the next few years and there’s more of a track record on reliability and longevity. Seems that you could perhaps use the existing BH cowling as well. Not sure how the engine mount on a BH would work for a UL. I read here that UL will make you an engine mount which is interesting.

Seems to me the biggest challenge with the Rotax would be the engine mount and cowling. Hopefully, it becomes available as an option on the kit. Given that I would be a first time builder, I would prefer somewhat of a “bolt on” install. But perhaps I’m over thinking it. As I said before, some level of trailblazing would be acceptable, but I would absolutely need some help.

I’m lucky that my wife is letting me indulge in the prospect of building, especially since she doesn’t have a big interest in flying (hence interest in LSA/Patrol). Although I suspect that if I end up building more than one I’ll be in hot water as well!

[Skyward II]

If you ever want to FINSH your aircraft, keep it simple. Patrol with IO360 and Trailblazer prop.

[bznhx]

If you ever want to FINSH your aircraft, keep it simple. Patrol with IO360 and Trailblazer prop.

I’m a big believer in the KISS method. Whichever airframe I chose I’d go for a carbureted engine, and likely a FP prop. Having not built an airplane before; I can imagine getting a serious case of “project creep” and a completely blown budget in a big hurry.

[Utah-Jay]

I’m a big believer in the KISS method. Whichever airframe I chose I’d go for a carbureted engine, and likely a FP prop. Having not built an airplane before; I can imagine getting a serious case of “project creep” and a completely blown budget in a big hurry.

Exactly what I did

[Skyward II]

I’m a big believer in the KISS method. Whichever airframe I chose I’d go for a carbureted engine, and likely a FP prop. Having not built an airplane before; I can imagine getting a serious case of “project creep” and a completely blown budget in a big hurry.

It will be great. Think resale when you build it. Going overly custom is often a mistake you realize once you put the aircraft up for sale. Single color with black or white accent inside and out. Have Sport Aircraft Seats do your seats. Money well spent.