Cabin insulation?

[wingnut13]

So I've been thinking of what to do later on in my build about the insulation for heat/noise. Being in New Hampshire it is pretty cold here for a good portion of the year. So I've been thinking what I could do to help out the heater system. So the question for everyone is would it be practical to insulate between the inside and outside fabric layers. I guess it would only be 3/4" of insulation but it's 3/4" more than would be there normally.

~Todd

[bestbearhawk1231]

Insulation is one area where you can add a lot of weight pretty quick. What type of insulation are you thinking about? Have you thought about adding a second heat muff to supplement your current cabin heat?

[wingnut13]

Well I wish I had a cabin to worry about currently, just thinking ahead.

[marcusofcotton]

This is from cold area of northern MN, no flying Bearhawk yet but flown other planes in winter a bunch (current main winter aircraft doesn't even have a cockpit). Forget the insulation, add dual mufflers with studs or other enhancement for dual heat muffs. Work hard to eliminate air leaks (in and out).

Mark J

[aerolite]

I agree with comments above about insulation, alot of extra weight, time and money for very little gain. Also the comment above re air leaks is a big one. We get some pretty cold weather here in Ottawa area (second coldest capital in the world) yet for a few winters I flew an old cub that had nothing but it's exterior fabric. A good heater, downhill skisuit and electric vest and I could fly comfortably at -15C, albeit not cross country though!
My best advice I can give to you is to use mufflers on the exhaust. Heat muffs work ok but don't come close to a muffler. On the Patrol I used a Vetterman exhaust with mufflers and we only have one plumbed in for now as the heat is really good. If we find more heat is needed than we will hook up the second. On an RV8 I was working on, it has a four into one exhaust with a large muffler and the heat is amazing compared to another 8 that just used Van's standard heat muffs. Have flown in the 8 with outside air temps at -36C and we were warm inside!
On the BH I am doing now the current plan is to use the Vetterman, again with mufflers, with one plumbed for front and the other for back, but we are looking into using in cabin heaters from DC Thermal.
The other advantage to mufflers is a quieter exhaust, the Vetterman is a 6db decrease.

[wingnut13]

Well thanks for all the insight guys. It's all good info to know when building.

[tailwind]

Here in Wisconsin this week, we have the annual week of deer hunting. It was -6 one morning. I did spend the weight to insulate my plane and put two heat muffs with a 3 inch cabin air opening into the cabin, I even installed electric seats. I stood in the weather all day. At the end of the day I remarked to my self that I would not like to spend the night out in the event of an accident with the plane. I was dressed for the weather, but the weather is brutal. Our best defense is to dress as if something might happen and we had to spend some time in the weather. Having good cabin heat will be an extra luxury.

[aerolite]

Todd, I totally forgot to mention that I have used heated seats as well (thanks for reminding me tailwind). Have put them in two planes now and they work very well. I got them from warmseats.com

[Glenn Patterson]

We have just mocked up dual 3 into 1 exhaust system with dual mufflers & dual heat cuffs. Experimental Exhaust (Fargo ND) are building the exhaust and they are extremely helpful. They gave us pictures of a Bearhawk 540 with mufflers, heat cuffs & dual heat control boxes that we copied for our build. The system looked well laid out and had the possibility of delivering more heat than could be delivered through one heat control box. We have a Continental IO-360 and expect that it should give reasonable heat.

Tailwind makes a very good point about dressing warm. We live in NW Ontario and fly for ice fishing so it is very remote as all the population is on the TransCanada highway at 1 -2 hour intervals. We will go ice fishing up to - 10 F but at night it will drop another 10 degrees. A half hour flight takes one to a place that would take hours to snow machine into and so immediate rescue is not possible.

We typically wear snow mobile suits or a combination of heavy parka and skidoo pants with snow mobile boots for winter flying in a Supercub. It is easier to open a zipper to regulate temperature than risk dressing too light. I carry a Gerber Freeman 4" folding knife that is easy to grip with mitts, butane lighter, matches, a compass and a mini mag LED light. In my gear there is an 18" folding Sawvivor bucksaw that can cut a lot of small wood quickly. My snowmobile suit is a Mustang Floater that is extremely warm as the floater material in the pants and jacket makes for a lot of warm insulation. When I am fishing at 5-10 below I usually have the side zippers open and the jacket partially unzipped. I wear a pair of 100 below Sorels & so my feet will never get cold but they are a bit awkward on the pedals. Some pilots will wear regular winter boots to fly & put their Skidoo boots on after landing for ice fishing. These are the basic essentials to keep a healthy person around for a couple days and to be able to make some basic shelter until someone shows up. I wear what I believe that I could survive with if everything else is lost. Dressing warm makes the flight comfortable & if the cabin is reasonably warm that is a bonus.

Glenn
BH727

[wingnut13]

Great information and advice here for sure! I'm glad to hear that so many guys are flying in the cold and have it figured out how to make due. I like the idea of heated seats, I have a set sitting on the shelf from my cobra project that never got used.

I also got an idea for my Scout II with the cummins 4BT, that engine makes NO heat. So the DC thermal product line will fix that issue!

Todd