Panel Talk

[EricP]

We are now having to define the panel in the Tinhawk. Brent is using a BlackBox Relay system for our switching. Here is a link to that product:

https://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BX-10

You can see the start of the install on the right hand side of the panel. We plan on using a velcroed cover to hide the part of the box that we don't need to see in normal operation. We will label the buttons on the cover but if we need to access the rest of the panel you can just pull the velcro cover off.

We will do a low budget VFR panel but of course with my airline background I want a lot in my panel! We are now planning on using GRT (Grand Rapids Technology) avionics. I think we will use the new 7" Sport EX for the main display and a Mini-X for the engine/backup display. We still need to decide on transponder with ADSB IN/OUT and COMM solutions. Also an intercom. I hope to decide at Sun N Fun this April and purchase it there.

We are leaving room for a tablet with our flight planning software on it to be velcroed to the panel on the left. I am really liking the updated Garmin Pilot ver. 5.5. We plan to build a small clamp that can hold the tablet and then velcro the clamp to the panel. Then we can just press the tablet into the clamp. We will have "cigarette lighter" outlets on each side to power tablets, phones, etc. This way we can have backup NAV that is always ready if we lose everything else. I plan on having a back up battery for the main display although I think Brent thinks this is overkill We will also have a handheld radio for independent backup on comm.

Any thoughts?

Edit: we have to add the EIS 4000 to enable the engine monitoring, this will then work with both displays and have it's own dedicated display

[whee]

I like panel discussions. So many options and different ways of doing things.

Where's the GRT EIS? To have a full engine display you have to have one but some guys hide it under the panel.

I don't have much experience with navigation apps but the few I've looked at seemed to want the tablet oriented vertically (portrait mode). That's something to look into.

The Garmin GTR200 looks like a great radio if all you want is a com.

[EricP]

We are planning on using the Mini X display as our engine display. The Sport EX display can display all info at once but obviously it will be very crowded with all that. The Mini X can also display everything but on a much smaller screen. GRT does have a very small LCD display for EIS (EIS 4000) but if I understand it right we can just put all the EIS functions on the two displays. My idea is that the Mini X will serve as EIS and as backup for the PFD. I will try to get more info from GRT but I think the regular displays can do everything we need. However, we could add the EIS 4000 if we felt the displays got too crowded with Engine readouts.

We plan to leave room so the tablets can be used in a vertical or horizontal mode. I just have it in the horizontal for the picture, it will be velcroed and can be moved at will or just taken off the panel. I see the tablet as being a totally independent backup for NAV and weather info as well as flight planning. If everything electrical quits it should have enough to help get us down.

The Garmin GTR 200 is definitely one that we will look at. I am also looking at the TRIG TY91 and ICOM IC A220. I think they all have built in intercom which seems to be the way to go.

[whee]

You are right, the Mini or the Sport will display all the engine information but you still need the EIS to collect and send that data to the Mini or the Sport. For engine instruments the EIS is the brain and the Mini or the Sport can be used as a display.

[EricP]

Thanks Whee! I think I knew that from prior research but forgot ....OK, update here...

I spoke with GRT and the EIS 4000 is required for the engine data for either the Sport EX or the Mini X which they can share. This will include the LCD display. GRT says this display can be put in the panel or mounted remotely. So basically we will have an ultimate "back up display" for the EIS if we lose both screens or if we just want to de-clutter the two displays.

So here is the current wish list:

GRT Advanced Sport EX $2400
optional WAAS GPS $500 (for ADSB OUT, not yet available)
optional magnetometer $260
GRT Mini X (mini can share magnetometer) $1395
optional moving map for Mini $150
GRT EIS 4000 engine monitoring $1450 (advanced life version)
TRIG TT22 / TT31 transponder $2000
TRIG TY91 / ICOM IC A220 comm $1300
Undecided on ADSB IN solution $300 to $700? Call it $500
Backup Flight Planning tablet, using Garmin Pilot $75 per year (includes second subscription for my phone!), tablet already bought but was about $250
Backup handheld comm $300?

Total using these figures (not including the Garmin Pilot or tablet or smartphone or handheld radio) is $9955. Of course I hope to improve on these prices but I think they are reasonable.

[EricP]

Here is the current "state of the art" for our panel. We have moved the largest display to the middle of the panel to be easily used by either side of the cockpit. Brent liked the Trig TT22 and TY91 and was not bothered by the remote mount aspect so for now it looks like we will go with Trig for the COMM and Transponder.

Notice the cigarette lighter plugs on either side of the panel for powering the tablets/smartphones. We did not put power receptacles in the back seat as we plan on having a battery backup jump starter like the Anti-Gravity (gotta like that name for something in the airplane!) in back anyway. So the "backseaters" can just plug into the battery jump starter.

The GRT EIS display on the left is so big we decided we will inset it into the dash so that it will be flush so we can velcro the tablet over it if we decide we want to.

The one circuit breaker is for the Alternator and we just have a 25 amp for now. It is just to "place hold" until we can get the proper rated circuit breaker to install.

Note: the "white space" around the display printouts is to show the actual size of the display as the print out does not always come out actual size.

[whee]

Looks like you are getting it laid out the way you like it. I look forward to the day I can start cutting holes in my panel.

I know I've posted a pic of my panel a couple times but here is my current version. It will change. Going to ditch the GTN650 and install a GTR200. Sport EX will be used primarily to display engine instruments. Tablet for navigation. Backup nav is the paper chart on my lap. I like my flight instruments and navigation source in front of me with with the engine gauges off to the side but still close. Key/mag switch will be upper left with the master switch. Bottom left will be a row of breaker switches.

[EricP]

We may still make changes. But since we will have three nav diplays (Sport EX, Mini X and tablet) we aren't as worried about placement. We both like the big display of the Sport EX to be up high where it is easily accessed from both front seats. I think that makes it easier to fly it from either pilot seat. Also, we think it just looks better that way!

I think the panel mount comm and transponder are fine but Brent liked the small size of the remote mount head for the TRIG. He kinda surprised me with that. I was expecting the opposite.

Hey, at least you are using color for your "mock ups"! I'm too cheap for that.

[kestrel]

I know I've posted a pic of my panel a couple times but here is my current version.

Whee, consider ditching the mechanical gyro in the turn coordinator for something solid state. A Dynon D2 would do the job. There are other options. I know the curmudgeons really like the old ball and needle, but the truth is that solid state is more reliable and when comparing apples to apples (new to new), cheaper. Devices like the D2 also have their own built in battery, so they keep running when everything else has failed.

[EricP]

The neat thing about the GRT Mini-X is that is has the AHRS built in so it is a self contained unit for no need for gyros or AHRS to be added to it. That is why I thought it was a great backup for the main PFD display. Of course the Mini can share the magnetometer data with the Sport EX so it will be full functioning and able to do everything the Sport EX does, just in a smaller format. I had considered the Dynon D2 but since we are using the GRT solution we can use the Mini-X and not only get the backup attitude and basic flight instruments but also NAV built in as well.

[whee]

The D2 and the GRT Mini are great solutions and make a lot of since. I should have mentioned that the T&B won't be installed unless I decide to get my instrument rating. Some people are comfortable flying IMC in a all electric airplane, I'm not one of those people. I want a backup that doesn't rely on electrons. But I've been through this discussion several times before so I don't think we need to have it here.

[EricP]

Whee, no problem. I am coming from flying glass on airliners so a completely different background and expectations. I think everyone just wants to put up suggestions and see what is appealing. You don't need to "defend" your choices. We are all having fun coming up with what we think is best for us. That is what homebuilding is all about. I doubt there are many (if any!) that would pick the panel we are doing or would arrange it the way we are. But that's OK, it just has to work for Brent and me. And yours just has to work for you.

Anyway, good thing I put up this thread so you could remind me I had to get the EIS for our plane!

[parish]

Eric, rather than the 12v cigarette plugs, any thought to simply installing a few USB ports. The main purpose as you state is for cell phones and tablet charging so the actual cigarette plug is not really needed if you provide the USB port. The footprint on the dash would be much smaller with the USB.

[Flygirl1]

Eric, I installed a dual panel mount USB I got from Commitlift.com. They are located in Sisters OR and take up just about as small an area on a panel as possible. The web site is very informative and worth a visit. Lots of informative info on USB's and how they work. Nothing wrong with a cig lighter, have one of those too. I also installed a Ram mount on the panel for my iPad mini. The Patrol panel is smaller than yours and I didn't want to take up the room. There is a photo of my panel in tips/technics section under the window lift struts post. It's on the left side, under the ram mount if you look close. D.

[whee]

I'm installing standard 12v "cigarette" plugs because I believe they are more versatile and I don't believe the footprint is effectively bigger when compared to dual usb ports. I'll mostly be using them with flush usb adapters plugged in but plugging in a 12v tire pump, my kids dvd player, my old hiking gps, my kids bottle warmer, etc will be possible.