Kit Order Sequence

corefile

corefile

Well-known member
I'm getting really close to ordering my QB 4 place kit - but I will be ordering them in stages, not ordering the fuselage and wings at the same time - I realize I will pay a little more this way but its the only way I could keep the wife happy (and we all know the saying). Most that I have talked to have said to order the fuselage first because that is where the bulk of the time is spent. However, I was thinking of doing the wings first - the reason being that baring a wing foil change - there is not much in the wing that could change.. meaning if I do my wings first and it takes me 4 years to finish my build - there is probably not going to be much difference in the technology that is in the wings - the LED lights installed will still be state of the art. Wheres the panel on the fuselage if I started that first - at the pace we are seeing innovation with technology - the instruments (electronics) could be outdated before I'm finished with the plane. Now I realize that could also be said once I start flying... Any pro or cons on the order from those who have blazed the trail before me - or is this just a case of "its does not really matter, just get off your ass and start".
 
Corefile, What's your time frame? Depending on various things I think you'd blast through the wing work pretty quick and then be stuck waiting permission from the boss to order the fuselage. If you do the fuselage first you could not finish the panel and engine till the very end of the build, after the wings. I agree, if you did the panel in the beginning you'd likely regret it. I've changed my panel plans three times since I started building because new options have come available.

If it were me I'd try to work out a deal with Mark for a unpainted fuselage that was more complete than the "Basic Fuselage" but not quite as complete at the QB. Once the fuselage is done, minus the panel and FWF, you'll be ready for the wings and the boss would likely approve because it had been a year or two since you bought the fuselage.
 
Chris has some good suggestions. I if I could only purchase a partial kit I would purchase the airframe first and wings second. There is a lot more work to be done in the airframe. Face it, I can't afford to keep up with the growth of technology. Spend some time identifying what your needs and wants are in a panel. Work with your radio shop to determine what systems you will need to purchase and install or plan for during the build. After the wings are built and the plane is assembled you can then purchase the latest and greatest panel and install it. The growth of technology is so fast that you can expect that some of your choices will be outdated in 12 months. If you have made a good plan your basic structure will still be sound. Build your structure so that you can easily service everything. You will have an aircraft that you can enjoy for a long time and upgrade as you see fit in the future.
 
The Patrol is my 4th homebuilt and have always done the wings and tail surfaces first. I found the wings and surfaces were a lot of work and like to get them finished, painted and put away, ready to go to final assembly at the airport. It gives you a lot of time to decide how you want to do the engine and panel, and when done with it, your are close to flying.
 
I can't speak specifically to a patrol wing build but my guess is that it would be similar to a Bearhawk. With good planning one could probably complete a wing up to paint in 40 hrs. Add another 40 hrs for a flap and aileron covered and painted. The second set should take less time. My point here is that there is not a great amount of work here when compared to the fuselage. If you could get your hands on a core engine you could build your firewall forward with all your systems also.
 
tailwind said:
I can't speak specifically to a patrol wing build but my guess is that it would be similar to a Bearhawk. With good planning one could probably complete a wing up to paint in 40 hrs. Add another 40 hrs for a flap and aileron covered and painted. The second set should take less time. My point here is that there is not a great amount of work here when compared to the fuselage. If you could get your hands on a core engine you could build your firewall forward with all your systems also.
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The wings are not anywhere near the work that goes into the fuselage, you are right about that. And as has been said, you can't finished the fuse without the wings.

I think each wing took me a lot longer than 80 hours. Even just the nutplates, hanging the control surfaces, riveting, and painting probably took 80 hours for each wing. I would figure on a larger number for planning purposes, particularly if it's your first build.
 
Mark Goldberg said:
Mr. Corefile (whatever your name might be) - you are welcome to call and discuss this on the phone. 512/626-7886. Mark
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Hey Mark - name is Paul. We've talked a few times on the phone - I mentioned ordering wings first and you suggested fuselage. I'll give you a call next week and we can discuss further. Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Hi Paul.
If you are after the 4 place then the new BH Bravo QB would be the way to go. New wing profile and updates for faster with better performance. It can't be too far off from becoming available.
Glenn
 
Glenn Patterson said:
Hi Paul.
If you are after the 4 place then the new BH Bravo QB would be the way to go. New wing profile and updates for faster with better performance. It can't be too far off from becoming available.
Glenn
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I sent an email to Mark the day after it was announced asking about availability - if you go back far enough in the forum history you will find a post from me asking about retrofitting patrol wings to the 4 place.
 
Mark Goldberg will there be plans/instructions to retrofit the pre-bravo QB fuesalage for the new bravo wings? Talking to someone that has a QB fuselage that has been sitting in the hangar for years - but would only be interested if I could easily retro fit it to take the Bravo Wing.
 
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It won't be "easy", I'm afraid. The airfoil is a different shape and is fatter than the "A". The "Bearhawk Hump" will have to be changed (taller), and the doors and door openings are a smidge shorter.

Mark did a write up of the changes he had to make to his plane to adapt to the new wings. I'll see if I can track it down if nobody links to it before me.

Chris
 
Chris, Post that link if you find it. It would be interesting to know. I don't think the top would be all the difficult to adapt but the shortening of the window/door opening would take some welding.
 
I am making really good progress on my kit, and hope to fly by early summer. Unfortunately do to my inexperience building planes, I was very inefficient in the build process. I resurrected this thread to pass along some things along.

I think I would do the wings and tail first, finish them, and get them out of the way. If you have the space I would work on a bunch of things simultaneously. That way you are never waiting for parts or material. But I would rather have wings sitting around for a while, than avionics (getting obsolete) and engine (getting rusty). You might want to mount the wings to the fuselage once for the flap tubes, fuel lines, and if an older kit, drilling the wings. New kits have the wings drilled. Since everything is jib built at the factory, one improvement for the kit would be to drill the flap arms on a jig at the factory. Plans built would have to be with the wings mounted.

When it comes to the fuselage, I would get the gear mounted and fitted, and then remove it. Put it on a rotisserie. Second, if you want some of the fuselage tubing painted, do it right after putting the fuselage on the rotisserie. I painted the cockpit tubing the same as the external part of the aircraft, but had to do a lot of disassembly to do it. It would have been easier and less of a mess in the beginning.

The fuselage would come off of the rotisserie, covered, painted, all systems installed, instruments and most if not all avionics installed. Put the gear back on, then mount the engine. I probably spent 2 or 3 times the man-hours on the fuselage that I should have.

One thing I also did the last 6 months is mount the engine on the dynafocal mount, and then mount it to a big engine stand with a plywood copy of the firewall. Almost all of the electrical, fuel, oil, half the baffling work, throttle cable, prop cable (not yet for me) will be done, and transferred to the real firewall, which I already started to do. I only left a few wires and hoses with 1 end unterminated for the final install. I did all this with then engine a few feet from the fuselage so I could measure things to make sure they fit and didn't interfere with structure. Had I not done this, I would have spent 3-6 months on the FWF alone, most of which would be waiting for parts.

Just my opinion.
 
svyolo said:
The fuselage would come off of the rotisserie, covered, painted, all systems installed, instruments and most if not all avionics installed. Put the gear back on, then mount the engine. I probably spent 2 or 3 times the man-hours on the fuselage that I should have.

One thing I also did the last 6 months is mount the engine on the dynafocal mount, and then mount it to a big engine stand with a plywood copy of the firewall. Almost all of the electrical, fuel, oil, half the baffling work, throttle cable, prop cable (not yet for me) will be done, and transferred to the real firewall, which I already started to do. I only left a few wires and hoses with 1 end unterminated for the final install. I did all this with then engine a few feet from the fuselage so I could measure things to make sure they fit and didn't interfere with structure. Had I not done this, I would have spent 3-6 months on the FWF alone, most of which would be waiting for parts.

Just my opinion.
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Can you be more specific about the order of things you did in the fuselage? Did you cover the fuselage before you installed the systems? I'm thinking I'll cover mine after the systems are installed. (meaning electrical system, instrument panel engine controls, all control cables, like Parking brake, heat control, all windows fit and I cant think of what else.)

This post is helping me evaluate my next steps.... I was not considering messing with firewall forward, but I can see that education, securing parts, and installing them will be slow and time consuming. Hummmmm.
 
I would not cover until systems are complete, or at least the ones under cloth. I don't have anything electric planned aft of the cargo bulkhead. Just control cables and static ports and lines. I wouldn't cover until I have all control lines to the rudder, elevator, and trim sorted and installed. If you have electric elevator trim, that will need to be installed, and made serviceable after cover.

I guess a lot depends on your experience with airplanes, and in my case building or owning one is zero. But I would put fit the gear, remove it, and put the fuselage on a rotisserie. Then paint any part of the tubing I planned to paint. The rest of the sequence is a bit more flexible.
 
I have a month or so away from my project and I will use a bit of time each day sorting my kit build log. I have been putting some thought into kit sequence, as mine was........well lets say less than optimum. Very disorganized.

For myself, I like to have more than one thing going on at a time. Since most of us don't live down the street from one of the aircraft supply vendors, constantly waiting for parts to continue would be a gigantic waste of time.

On a different thread Mark G has requested recommendations on changes to make the kit easier to build. Avipro now drills the wings to the fuselage, which is a big help. I think drilling the flap arms on a jig would also be a nice improvement. I know there is risk in having it slightly off, but the accuracy of the wings and fuselage structures, as built by the factory, should, to a large extent, mitigate this.

It would be nice for kit builders to only have to mount the wings to the fuselage once.
 
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I suspect that you will have the first flying model B. (Marks is a modified Model A of course.) Thats something to be very proud of.
 
Rob is a bit farther along than I am, and I am taking month or two off right now. I think my fuselage or wings are B #8 on the plaque.
 
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