Kit Order Sequence

[corefile]

I'm getting really close to ordering my QB 4 place kit - but I will be ordering them in stages, not ordering the fuselage and wings at the same time - I realize I will pay a little more this way but its the only way I could keep the wife happy (and we all know the saying). Most that I have talked to have said to order the fuselage first because that is where the bulk of the time is spent. However, I was thinking of doing the wings first - the reason being that baring a wing foil change - there is not much in the wing that could change.. meaning if I do my wings first and it takes me 4 years to finish my build - there is probably not going to be much difference in the technology that is in the wings - the LED lights installed will still be state of the art. Wheres the panel on the fuselage if I started that first - at the pace we are seeing innovation with technology - the instruments (electronics) could be outdated before I'm finished with the plane. Now I realize that could also be said once I start flying... Any pro or cons on the order from those who have blazed the trail before me - or is this just a case of "its does not really matter, just get off your ass and start".

[Mark Goldberg]

Mr. Corefile (whatever your name might be) - you are welcome to call and discuss this on the phone. 512/626-7886. Mark

[whee]

Corefile, What's your time frame? Depending on various things I think you'd blast through the wing work pretty quick and then be stuck waiting permission from the boss to order the fuselage. If you do the fuselage first you could not finish the panel and engine till the very end of the build, after the wings. I agree, if you did the panel in the beginning you'd likely regret it. I've changed my panel plans three times since I started building because new options have come available.

If it were me I'd try to work out a deal with Mark for a unpainted fuselage that was more complete than the "Basic Fuselage" but not quite as complete at the QB. Once the fuselage is done, minus the panel and FWF, you'll be ready for the wings and the boss would likely approve because it had been a year or two since you bought the fuselage.

[tailwind]

Chris has some good suggestions. I if I could only purchase a partial kit I would purchase the airframe first and wings second. There is a lot more work to be done in the airframe. Face it, I can't afford to keep up with the growth of technology. Spend some time identifying what your needs and wants are in a panel. Work with your radio shop to determine what systems you will need to purchase and install or plan for during the build. After the wings are built and the plane is assembled you can then purchase the latest and greatest panel and install it. The growth of technology is so fast that you can expect that some of your choices will be outdated in 12 months. If you have made a good plan your basic structure will still be sound. Build your structure so that you can easily service everything. You will have an aircraft that you can enjoy for a long time and upgrade as you see fit in the future.

[jim.mclaughlin924]

The Patrol is my 4th homebuilt and have always done the wings and tail surfaces first. I found the wings and surfaces were a lot of work and like to get them finished, painted and put away, ready to go to final assembly at the airport. It gives you a lot of time to decide how you want to do the engine and panel, and when done with it, your are close to flying.

[tailwind]

I can't speak specifically to a patrol wing build but my guess is that it would be similar to a Bearhawk. With good planning one could probably complete a wing up to paint in 40 hrs. Add another 40 hrs for a flap and aileron covered and painted. The second set should take less time. My point here is that there is not a great amount of work here when compared to the fuselage. If you could get your hands on a core engine you could build your firewall forward with all your systems also.

[Battson]

I can't speak specifically to a patrol wing build but my guess is that it would be similar to a Bearhawk. With good planning one could probably complete a wing up to paint in 40 hrs. Add another 40 hrs for a flap and aileron covered and painted. The second set should take less time. My point here is that there is not a great amount of work here when compared to the fuselage. If you could get your hands on a core engine you could build your firewall forward with all your systems also.

The wings are not anywhere near the work that goes into the fuselage, you are right about that. And as has been said, you can't finished the fuse without the wings.

I think each wing took me a lot longer than 80 hours. Even just the nutplates, hanging the control surfaces, riveting, and painting probably took 80 hours for each wing. I would figure on a larger number for planning purposes, particularly if it's your first build.

[corefile]

Mr. Corefile (whatever your name might be) - you are welcome to call and discuss this on the phone. 512/626-7886. Mark

Hey Mark - name is Paul. We've talked a few times on the phone - I mentioned ordering wings first and you suggested fuselage. I'll give you a call next week and we can discuss further. Thanks!


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[Glenn Patterson]

Hi Paul.
If you are after the 4 place then the new BH Bravo QB would be the way to go. New wing profile and updates for faster with better performance. It can't be too far off from becoming available.
Glenn

[Mark Goldberg]

Glenn - we are making and selling the new Model B kits now. Mark

[corefile]

Hi Paul.
If you are after the 4 place then the new BH Bravo QB would be the way to go. New wing profile and updates for faster with better performance. It can't be too far off from becoming available.
Glenn

I sent an email to Mark the day after it was announced asking about availability - if you go back far enough in the forum history you will find a post from me asking about retrofitting patrol wings to the 4 place.

[corefile]

Mark Goldberg will there be plans/instructions to retrofit the pre-bravo QB fuesalage for the new bravo wings? Talking to someone that has a QB fuselage that has been sitting in the hangar for years - but would only be interested if I could easily retro fit it to take the Bravo Wing.

[Chris In Milwaukee]

It won't be "easy", I'm afraid. The airfoil is a different shape and is fatter than the "A". The "Bearhawk Hump" will have to be changed (taller), and the doors and door openings are a smidge shorter.

Mark did a write up of the changes he had to make to his plane to adapt to the new wings. I'll see if I can track it down if nobody links to it before me.

Chris

[whee]

Chris, Post that link if you find it. It would be interesting to know. I don't think the top would be all the difficult to adapt but the shortening of the window/door opening would take some welding.

[Chris In Milwaukee]

Wayne Massey made a quick note of some of the changes he observed while flying Bravo here (post #7):

http://bearhawkforums.com/forum/bearhawk-4-place-plans-build/25567-to-bravo-or-not-to-bravo-that-is-the-question

it also jives with my discussion with Mark at OSH16. I haven't tracked down Mark's forum reply (unless I imagined it). But I'll keep looking.

[Chris In Milwaukee]

It is completely doable, however. N404AP is a QB kit that has been retrofitted with Bravo wings. But it's been modified.