Banner Towing

[haribole]

Wonder if anyone is doing banner towing with a bearhawk?

[mswain]

I always thought the operating limitations for E-AB contain wording to the effect that the no person shall operate the aircraft for other than recreation or education, precluding commercial use?

[haribole]

A tech counselor at my local EAA chapter confirmed that experimental aircrafts can be used for banner towing. These were his exact words "Actually, Banner towing with Experimentals is fine, and frequently done. The prohibition is not on commercial work, but on carrying passengers for hire in Experimental Aircraft."

[jaredyates]

Hello Hari! I hope all is well over your way. It sounds like your project is really coming along and I hope you'll write a Beartracks article about it soon.

If you'd like to read through all of the operating limitations for N805TB, I'd be glad to send you a copy. They are sort of the "missing" regulations that are issued during the initial airworthiness inspection. You'll find many regulatory debates online from builders who will say that the regulations don't prohibit such and such, only because they have not yet been issued their operating limitations. Operating limitations may vary from one plane to the next, and there are different kinds of experimental airworthiness certificates. Some older operating limitations may have privileges that are no longer issued, so there may be folks that are grandfathered in to certain operations. Having said that, most of our airplanes are given special airworthiness certificates for an Experimental, Amateur-Built airplane. The wording in my operating limitations is "No person may operate this aircraft for other than the purpose of 14 CFR 91.319(b) during phase 1 flight testing, and for education and recreation after meeting these requirements as stated in the program letter... for this aircraft." That means, as Mike says, that unless I get the FSDO to agree to issue new operating limitations somehow, I can only use the plane for my education and recreation. This is in addition to the prohibition of carrying persons or property for hire, and in most cases the E&R provision is much more restrictive than the carriage for hire provision. Many folks say that this restriction even prohibits commercial aerial photography from E-AB airplanes, though that appears to be negotiable from one FSDO to the next, and certainly there are folks who push the limits of the limits and likely get away with it for a while. I think it would be a stretch to call banner towing education or recreation, and just to be sure that I'm not tempted to make that stretch, the FAA also included item number 20, which says "This aircraft must not be used for glider towing, banner towing, or intentional parachute jumping." Those guys really know how to take all of the fun out of everything.

Incidentally, this is why I went to the trouble to get the transition training Letter of Deviation Authority, which allows me to use our airplane for flight training for hire, on a very limited basis. If I didn't have this letter (and the corresponding authorization), then I wouldn't be allowed to charge people for instruction in our airplane, because that would not be considered my education and recreation.

I don't know anything about banner towing operations, but after reading the 24th page of this document, I wonder if your tech counselor is mixing up "experimental" and "restricted." Highly-modified airplanes used for towing banners can have "restricted" special airworthiness certificates, if they are to be configured in a way that deviates far from the original TC. And being that banner towing operations require a waiver and the corresponding FAA oversight, it would be completely non-productive to try and sneak around the regulations- more so than it usually is.

[Battson]

I agree Jared,

While some for-pay activities seemingly used to slip by, these days the rules are very clear ---> hire or reward are prohibited.

Now, if you wanted to two a banner as a favour, without any reward except your own recreational enjoyment (or tow a glider for that matter) that seems to be fine - provided you aren't rewarded in any way.

[jaredyates]

I should have said that all of my previous reply may or may not apply in countries other than the US... but in my case the specific prohibition on towing gliders and banners seems to cover the favor case too.

[haribole]

Hi Jared, thanks for the detailed explanation, that makes sense. Yes, the project is coming along great. In the process of covering the doors and control surfaces. should be ready to cover the fuselage soon. Waiting to get the wing attach fittings machined to test fit the wings.

[David Weber]

I looked into it about 3 years ago and called the FAA in Houston. They told me you can not use experimental for banner towing.

[Battson]

Wonder if anyone is doing banner towing with a bearhawk?

Admit it Haribole, this is why you asked, isn't it?