Not the usual OA vs. TIG thread

[Chris In Milwaukee]

At our last EAA Chapter meeting, someone asked me how I was planning to weld up my Bearhawk. I told them that I had an OA rig, and then I got the, "Oh my god, you won't believe how expensive it is to buy gas now" speech. To be honest, I haven't emptied my tanks yet since the original acquisition, so I have no idea how much gas is now.

Although the costs may be localized, anyone have an idea of the cost of gas versus buying a nice TIG along with its consumables? I imagine that there are those in tune with this environment more so than myself.

I'm just wondering if his reply was anecdotal, or if there is actually a significant cost differential. The folks on Supercub.org seem to think it's a wash.

[whee]

I can't answer your question directly. The TIG I am using is a loaner but I have refilled the argon bottle at least 6 times at ~$60 each and about ~$20 worth of tungsten. I bought my project with the frame fully welded and have been just adding all the fittings which is quite a bit of welding. I would budget at least $600 for argon for a TIG rig. I also have a OA rig that I've have for years. When I started I had 150psi of acetylene and 500psi of oxygen. I've refilled the O at a cost of ~$40...I think. I've got virtually no A left. If I was good with a OA rig I'd give the TIG back. Off the cuff I'd bet, acquisition cost aside, either system costs about the same to operate.

[dedgemon]

wow, thats seems really high, what kind of flow rate are you using? gas lens? postflow time?

[whee]

The guy that loaned me the TIG, a professional welder, said to set it at 30CFH. I had a friend come help me a few times, another professional welder, and he said 30CFH was probably enough since I was in a enclosed space. I post flow till it is no longer glowing red. From the indicators I know this is just enough gas; I certainly wouldn't run any less with the setup I'm using.

[jaredyates]

In the realm of airplane expenses, then I suppose they could be called a wash. 5 years ago I spent about $900 on the OA setup, which included a kit from Tinman with his expensive lens and buying my own bottles. Filling both bottles would probably be on the order of $100, but I haven't needed to in quite a while. Apples to apples, I think the initial setup for the OA is still going to be much cheaper. I can't really speak to consumables, but I would suspect that they are going to be similar. The TIG would have better cross-project utility and resale value, which may help offset the cost of initial purchase if you consider those factors.

[bestbearhawk1231]

Hi Chris, I purchased my oa rig around 7 years ago for around $500. It is a smith HVAC Porta torch kit with the little bottles, lifetime warranty torch, regulators, hose, and a carrier. I used it on several projects for around a year before I bought big bottles for it (k size ox and a 140 size acetilyne...the standard cutting setup). The o2 lasts around twice as long as the acetilyne. In western ne, a k size o2 bottle is around $ 30 or so and the acetilyne is around $85 or so. I get mine from linweld and they simply exchange bottles after you buy them and take care of the pressure testing. I have checked into argon in the past and I remember it being priced competitively to acetilyne for a bottle that will last as long as the acetilyne. Smith welding tips run around 30 bucks each and I have yet to wear one out. I have no experience with TIG however when I looked into it, it seemed like it was a good way to get nickeled and died to death...just my opinion. My original big bottles have lasted 5 or 6 years which included many cutting, heating, and fab projects. I also learned to weld with the big bottles and destroying quite a bit of aluminum learning to weld aluminum.

[sbmurphey]

I have a super welding supplier locally. He may not always be the cheapest, but he will take care of his customers. This year I paid $20 for my oxygen and $75 for an acetylene refill.

[Chris In Milwaukee]

I leased my tanks from a dealer in Madison, WI. Now that I've moved two hours north of there, it's a long trip to take my bottles back to be refilled. My local supplier won't refill them because they aren't their bottles. I guess the easiest thing to do is go down and ask them how much to use theirs, right? :-).

That price is certainly not scary at all.

[sbmurphey]

At work we had a change in our state contract this year. From memory, the monthly lease rates on our new bottles was just under $2.00 each. This covers hydro testing and the valve when necessary. There was also a small discount on gas price worked into the contact. I have always preferred to own my personal bottles. I typical do not use that much gas over the course of a year.

[tailwind]

If you have the gas system why add to the cost by purchasing another system unless you feel the system will be used for a lot of other projects. If you tig weld you need to spend additional time in making quality fit up of your joints. Gas has a wider heat affected zone and therefore fit up is not as critical.

[Chris In Milwaukee]

Definitely a plus for OA. Fills gaps without tight fits (we actually learned how to do it in Earl's class). Planning to keep using it, definitely.

[Chris In Milwaukee]

I have the Tinman setup, and a pair of big bottles, and thus far am perfectly content with them. I took the SportAir gas welding workshop a few years ago with the Meco (Earl Luce instructing), and I really liked the results with the limited projects we did. Two years ago I took the gas welding workshop again to brush up on my skills since I hadn't welded with it since, but I chose to use the torches that EAA had in the class (comparable to the Smith torch in form). I found I wasn't doing as well.

Since I'm planning to weld up tanks, too, I thought I'd ask about a TIG rig. I have Kent's video for welding aluminum with the Meco, and it's a great resource. But I know that a lot of folks prefer TIG for welding aluminum, stainless, and other exotics. And some folks swear by them for steel. All in what you started with, I reckon.

I'll continue with the Meco, and if I destroy a lot of 5052 while attempting to weld tanks, then I'll send them off to be made :-)

Thanks for your insights!

[bestbearhawk1231]

There is always the option of riveting the tanks with sealant RV style. Personally I am not able to justify the price of even a "cheap" Chinese one like an AHP alpha tig + bottle+ all the add on junk that goes with it at this point in my life. I can screw up a lot of aluminum and stainless steel learning how to OA weld with the proper flux for the price of a TIG machine. All things aside if you do not consider the entrance fee of either process, I don't think there would be all that much difference in operating cost. One other nice thing about OA is that you don't get sunburned if you don't have a full face shield and long sleeves.

[Chris In Milwaukee]

I certainly agree about the sunburn!