Aircaft wheel manufacturers

[bestbearhawk1231]

Hi guys, I have some questions about the differences between aircraft wheel manufacturers. This is an area where I have no experience and am looking for direction. I am several years away from this point but it is one of those questions that I can't get out of my head after I thumb through the wheel section of the ACS catalog. I am building the 4 place and am planning on running 8.5x6 wheels on it. If I had to buy today I would probably get the Matco W600 or W600XT just by looking at the specs and prices. I used the following #s in the Matco "how to choose" section of their website...Max landing weight 2500lbs, landing speed of 50 knots (since I don't know what landing speeds typically are), tire radius of 11" and 2 brakes which give me 138438 ft-lb of Kinetic and 4263 in-lb torque.

So my questions are this...what are the differences between Cleveland, Grove, and Matco? Why are Clevelands so dang expensive compared to Matcos? Is it because Clevelands are certified? Is it a quality issue? If there is no quality difference, why would someone go with the more expensive ones on a homebuilt? Is it a matter of going to the local FBO to get pads at annual time (which would make sense for the Alaska guys)? Do the pads and rotors wear differently from brand to brand? Does one brand have more of a reputation for warping rotors and wearing out pads quicker? Do the cheap(er) wheels have a bad reputation?

Also, pros and cons of internal vs external brake rotors?

Thanks for your help,
Joe

[Battson]

Grove 6" wheels are basically an uncertified copy of the Cleveland 6" wheel, hence some price difference because no paperwork. When you buy a certified product, you're paying for the paperwork-loop which the manufacturer had to jump though. I don't know much about Matco, but it seems the majority Matco's catalogue is aimed at lighter aircraft, with a few heavily-built offerings which suit the Bearhawk. I have no idea if/why they are cheaper. I've heard no significant bad reports about any of the three.

If you are looking at an 8.50x600 tire, then you are right at the boundary for needing double puck brakes. If you want to pull-up short with a heavy load on, or have effective brakes for crosswind taxiing, and effective brakes in wet conditions - you definitely need double puck. If you can imagine wanting to get bigger wheels in future, it's cheaper to get double-pucks now. If you only want a little braking, or could see yourself going down a tire size, then single puck will suit you fine. Be aware that double puck brake callipers need a larger brake disc. Some single puck brake callipers will work with the double puck disc, but backwards compatibility isn't guaranteed.
One set of brake pads should last you several hundred of hours of flying if you're not taxiing everywhere with power against brakes.

[oismith]

The Grove products are probably the best for the money. I have used Matco and did not like them. The primary reason is that you cannot inspect the outboard brake pad without removing the wheel, like you can with Clevelands or Groves. On the Matco the brake disk is in the way. Further, if you do wear down the pad to the point that it separates at the rivet holes and is lost, the puck will push out of the casting past the o-ring and the brake will be totally inoperative. Also, since you have to pull
the wheel off every time you replace the pads, this routine maintenance is a lot more difficult.

Grove is an interesting outfit. For brake/wheel sets they will not deal directly with a retail customer but insist you go through one of their distributors. However for spare parts they will not deal through distributors (ACS in particular), and you have to go to them directly. Good products and service, but kind of strange marketing.

[Battson]

I have been having real difficulty getting parts from Grove, directly, they simply won't return my emails wanting to send them money for parts. Lots of help on the phone, but it seems like their process isn't great.

[Phil]

Personally I'm looking hard at the Beringer Wheels. I love the look of their brake system, especially the antilock balancing device. Now if they'd just come out with one designed for straight axles instead of tapered. http://www.beringer.fr/aero.php just download the pdf catalogue and scroll down to the double caliper bushwheels.

I've never heard anything negative about the Grove wheels and brakes. But like Battson said, I've used to seeing Matco's on ultralights and light sports.

[Phil]

I haven't run a side by side comparison, but for a complete set up, wheels, brakes, master cylinders, reservoirs, parking valve and Anti-skid device, their prices don't seem any different than Clevelands. And it'll be a few years before I'm actually shopping for wheels anyway.

[Battson]

This from Beringer today:

"We are developing a wheel that will fit the welded 1.5in axles, it should be available mid of the year! But for the moment we haven't anything to propose for the Bearhawk."

[Phil]

Thanks Battson. I'll keep an eye on their web site. Going to be longer than that before I'm ready to buy wheels.

[alaskabearhawk]

FWIW, my mantra in building for Alaska is repair-ability. If I'm stuck somewhere and need a part for a Cleveland wheel, Lycoming engine, etc, chances are very good that I'll be able to get the part pretty much anywhere there are certified aircraft. Anything other than a "common" manufacturer and I'm out of luck outside of the road system. The other wheels may be good, but a non-starter for me. I have the Cleveland 199-62A for my aircraft.

[bestbearhawk1231]

Thanks for the help guys. I had decided on double puck brakes after talking to a local EAA member who had a Bellanca Scout with 8.5x6 wheels and single pucks. I really don't see myself going much smaller than the 8.5s and would like the headroom if I decide to go bigger once I am flying and see how they handle farm and mountain strips around here. Paul, I have seen the 199-62a wheels mentioned a few times by the alaskan crowd... is there a particular reason they are popular or are they just that popular up there?

Also, what wheel are others using for the tailwheel? I have the plans for the barrow's tailwheel but am undecided on the 8" or 10" tailwheel size. What are the common sizes for tailwheels?

[alaskabearhawk]

I'm using the Bob Wheel as the tailwheel, 8 inch tire. I'm sure I'll upgrade to a baby bushwheel for the back in the future. The Cleveland set is just a standard kit that fits a number of different aircraft and works well on the BH. The 199-62 has three bolts holding the wheel halves together, the 199-62A has six bolts. I checked and do have the -62s and not the -62As. In talking to Cleveland and AIrframes North, the six bolts are way overkill for the application and in practical terms don't add to the strength of the assembly. At the time when I was deciding what wheels to buy I drove around Merrill Field and actually looked at a LOT of different aircraft wheels. It was split about 50/50 between the three and six bolt wheels with no rhyme or reason between make/model of aircraft and size of tire.

[bestbearhawk1231]

Thanks for the help. I guess I will be adding wheels to the "what to look at" list at flyins and Airventure. Are both the 62s and 62As threaded for the wheel covers? I am all for ease of maintenance, but I can handle removing the covers. One of the little things that add to the looks of a plane.

[alaskabearhawk]

They have three threaded holes spaced evenly around the perimeter for wheel cover attach screws.

[Battson]

Does Cleveland offer a tubeless wheel to suit the Bearhawk axle?

I am looking at running the 26" Goodyear tires tubeless to allow me to run lower pressures without the risking a flat. I thought I had a solution with Grove; but it seems they only offer their tubeless wheel for a 1-1/4" axle. I had wondered if it's just a question of ordering larger bearings, but that rabbit hole could go deep.

Plan B is 26" bushwheels, but wow that costs. Shipping around the world does nothing to help the price-tag.

[Battson]

Thanks Mark, that is good to know. I'll ask my local distributor.

[mawilso8@gmail.com]

What wheel set up did you end up going with?

[Battson]

I ended up purchasing AK Bushwheels. There really is no substitute for bushwheels when landing on seriously rough surfaces.

[Zzz]

I saw at the Airmen's show that Airframes/Ak bushwheel has released their own brake/wheelset. It's yet another Cleveland copy but slightly cheaper apparently. http://www.airframesalaska.com/mobil...ode=ABI-199-62

[Mark Moyle]

Just bought Alaska Bushwheels Cleveland replacement 199-62A kit. These are the six bolt wheels. $1800 made from Aluminum...no magnesium. Nice product. Mounting the Goodyear 26" tires with tubes. May...may use the drag racing fix to prevent the bead from slipping. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Battson]

The 4x4 off-road guys have some nice products for that too.
I've also gone with the Goodyears, to start with. These 27" Desser tundra tires are going to be interesting.

[twstokes1]

Hello, I was wondering if any of you could provide some input on which hub cap, if any, is better than the others. I have the groves 66-152 aluminum, and was looking at the groves hub caps on Aircraft Spruce. But if there is a better alternative, I'm all ears!

[Battson]

Hello, I was wondering if any of you could provide some input on which hub cap, if any, is better than the others. I have the groves 66-152 aluminum, and was looking at the groves hub caps on Aircraft Spruce. But if there is a better alternative, I'm all ears!

I have the caps from Spruce for Grove. They are heavy duty alloy, well made, and come with a protective cover still attached.

I don't use mine, I realise after installing them, that I prefer the look with them off - they make the wheels look smaller

I bought them to protect the unpainted axel interior tube from sea salt, sand, water, and the like when I am landing. I would reinstall them (6 screws only) if I were doing a long day of beach landings.

[twstokes1]

Thanks for the quick reply! The information is very helpful

[mawilso8@gmail.com]

Is there any chance anyone has experience with this “conversion kit’’?

https://matcoals.com/product/tubeless-kit-90-degree-stem/