New Member in New Mexico

[Desert Flyer]

Hello All,
I'm looking into building a 4 place. I currently fly a C150/150 with a Horton STOL Kit. Wife wants a bigger plane its build a Bearhawk or Buy a C180. I can't afford a nice 180 so I will build. I'm thinking of using a O470-50 P Ponk. Has anyone used one yet? If so how does it perform?

[jaredyates]

Hi, and welcome! I don't know about the Continentals- is the engine you have in mind different from the type if 470 that came on a 182 or 310? Ernie Green used a 470 off of a 310, and Joe Lisanke is just doing the initial runs on a 470 also. The performance seems good, but the engines are heavier and take up more space in the cowl it seems. I'll also venture into the unsolicited advice category (which is usually a bad idea) and suggest that building an airplane is an especially costly way to acquire one. The most successful builders that I have met are the ones who build for building's sake- the building process itself is a hobby. If you aren't reaping some major intrinsic value from the building process, and if you value your time at all, then you'll save tens of thousands of dollars by buying a flying airplane. For example, if you buy a kit, the bits to finish it, and perhaps if you got a lucky deal on a mid-time fwf 470 package, you will have invested perhaps 60-100k depending on how much effort you spend on scrounging, and how you outfit the panel. If you build it without major modification, then you'll probably have around 1500 hours of shop time and another 500-1000 hours of research time. The more time you spend on productive research, the less money you'll spend, generally speaking. So that's 2000-2500 hours, assuming you don't try and make a lot of changes in the building process. Those are hours that you won't be doing something else, which may be working, hunting prairie dogs, spending time with family (or wild women, as the case may be) etc. If you could be working at a paid, similar job for those hours as a custom fabricator, you could probably net around $15 per hour, bringing the price of the airplane up another $30k+. Apples to apples, what does a 180 cost, and what will the finished Bearhawk be worth? I don't mean to imply that you shouldn't build, because you might have some intrinsic value from building that you didn't mention in the first post. And as always, everyone is different and your mileage may vary as they say. Having said all of that, I'll also add that Ernie's flying Bearhawk has recently been for sale at what I thought to be a pretty good price. I don't know what the latest is, but he had it listed on Barnstormers.

[Battson]

I have to agree with Jared's (unsolicited) advice that building is NOT cheaper in terms of acquisition cost.
It is much cheaper in terms of maintenance and upgrade cost, but that doesn't offset acquisition cost unless you're in for the long-haul.

I built to fly, not to enjoy building (but I did that too) and I have no regrets. In a time-frame of 1.5 years I spent 1800hrs building a modified design, maybe 1000hrs research / paperwork, got engaged, and got promoted... So it's not impossible to "build to fly". It was 2 years ago that I started, I now have 170hrs on the airframe.

I suggest Lycoming - lighter weight, more powerful, better design in some ways (not all ways), and what the airframe was designed to use.

[Mark Moyle]

The continental is heavier. Texas skyways gives a weight of 417 pounds for the O470/520. I built the permold heavy case IO520WB using the model D induction, stock starter, exhaust, bendix 1200 mags and the stock gear driven alternator. The engine weighed 462 pounds. Have the light weight starter and alternator now. Have pushed the engine back against the firewall. Datum to crank flange is 54-1/4". Plans call for 58-1/2" with the O540. Get the quick build kit! Mark M. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD