Fire extinguisher

[Aero_tango]

I just bought a PRT A600 - Halon extinguisher and I haven’t found any good place to secure the mounting bracket. Mounting it on the floor is an option, but not ideal. Any suggestion from those who have one installed?

Mike

[Mark Moyle]

Perhaps something like this.

[S Lathrop]

This is not an answer to your question but something to think about.

I my race cars, the fire extinguishers are mounted where ever we can fit them, commonly under the seat. They are remotely activated and there are discharge nozzles directed to where we are mostly likely to have a fire. In the case of a Bearhawk, I would think a nozzle under the floor where the fuel lines converge and a second nozzle behind the instrument panel.

My question would be that if there is an inflight emergency that requires a fire extinguisher, can one person fly the plane and work the fire extinguisher?

[svyolo]

If you are on fire, yes. The other option being a "gravity assist".

[svyolo]

Aviate, navigate, and communicate, in that order. Unless you are on fire.

[S Lathrop]

I think that there is a good argument for being able to just punch a button and fill the cockpit with Halon. That does a wonderful job of suppressing a fire. And keep aviating while that is happening.

And the correct type of Halon will not incapacitate you.

[Aero_tango]

Thanks Mark for the photos.
There is a lot of thing going on under the pilot seat...battery, contactor and fuel line. You definitely need a fire suppression solution under the seat!!!!
i spent sometime yesterday looking at few solution and the best location (for my need) is under the boot cowl, right next to my left leg, along the fuselage side. I have to lean forward to reach it and seems easily accessible. I’ll post a photo when I’m done.
mike

[Chewie]

Or you could do what they do on trainer 152s, one just rolling around somewhere back in the luggage where you'll never reach it.

[jaredyates]

I think of a portable halon extinguisher sort of like a pencil eraser. I'm unlikely to need it for myself, but I keep it around in case someone else might need it! Seriously though, being able to grab that bottle quickly might put out a neighbor's burning air filter at a fly in or something.

[svyolo]

Thanks Mark for the photos.
There is a lot of thing going on under the pilot seat...battery, contactor and fuel line. You definitely need a fire suppression solution under the seat!!!!
i spent sometime yesterday looking at few solution and the best location (for my need) is under the boot cowl, right next to my left leg, along the fuselage side. I have to lean forward to reach it and seems easily accessible. I’ll post a photo when I’m done.
mike

Actually Halon is best used as an oxygen deprivation extinguisher, so it works best if it is in a sealed area. Unfortunately that also deprives the occupants of oxygen. I don't think that makes it any more hazardous to us than other types. Maybe still less hazardous. It will "put out the fire" but doesn't do a good job of "keeping the fire out" unless the area is sealed.

[Bdflies]

I don't have an extinguisher in my Patrol. After following this thread, though, it came to mind this afternoon. While flying another aircraft, with a factory installed extinguisher bracket, it occurred to me how totally useless it was. I was right seat in an R-44. The extinguisher is attached to the front passenger's foot well. Not only can the pilot not reach it, but the passenger would shove the cyclic full forward if he tried to get it. In flight, this would be highly unfortunate. If the fire was detected early enough to make a good landing, one might be able to access the extinguisher when on the ground...if one was inclined to hang around a burning helicopter...
The moral of my story is that if the extinguisher isn't really easily accessed in flight, it just might be useless.
Yolo brings up an interesting point: if one does detect a fire and is able to access and deploy the contents of the extinguisher, will deployment of those contents render the pilot incapable of piloting the aircraft? I really don't know the answer to that last question, but I've used "dry powder" extinguishers a few times and wonder.

Bill

[svyolo]

Dry powder would be unpleasant for sure, but probably less unpleasant than burning. I never thought about an extinguisher for a light plane before. I guess the two biggest threats are electrical and fuel. I think the dry chemical or foam might work the best.

[Aero_tango]

In Canada, you can’t opt out...fire extinguisher are mandatory:

602.60 Requirements for Power-driven Aircraft:
(1) No person shall conduct a take-off in a power-driven aircraft, other than an ultra-light aeroplane, unless the following operational and emergency equipment is carried on board:
a hand-held fire extinguisher in the cockpit that
(i) is of a type suitable for extinguishing fires that are likely to occur,
(ii) is designed to minimize the hazard of toxic gas concentrations, and
(iii) is readily available to each flight crew member;

Aircraft Hand Fire Extinguishers
1.4.1 General
When selecting a hand fire extinguisher for use in aircraft, consider the most appropriate extinguishing agent for the type and location of fires likely to be encountered. Take account of the agent’s toxicity, extinguishing ability, corrosive properties, freezing point, etc. The toxicity ratings listed by the Underwriters’ Laboratories for some of the commonly known fire extinguisher chemicals are as follows:

Bromotrifluoromethane (Halon 1301) – Group 6
Bromochlorodifluoromethane (Halon 1211) – Group 5a
Carbon dioxide – Group 5a
Common Dry Chemicals – Group 5a
Dibromidifluoromethane (Halon 1202) – Group 4*
Bromochlormethane (Halon 1011) – Group 4*
Carbon Tetrachloride (Halon 104) – Group 3*
Methyl bromide (Halon 1001) – Group 2*
*Should not be installed in an aircraft

It is generally realized that virtually any fire extinguishing agent is a compromise between the hazards of fire, smoke, fumes and a possible increase in hazard due to the toxicity of the extinguishing agent used. Hand fire extinguishers using agents having a rating in toxicity Groups 2 to 4 inclusive should not be installed in aircraft. Extinguishers in some of the older types of aircraft do not meet this standard and for such aircraft it is recommended that hand fire extinguishers employing agents in toxicity Group 5 or above be installed when renewing or replacing units and that they be of a type and group approved by the Underwriters’ Laboratories. It is further recommended that instruction in the proper use, care and cautions to be followed be obtained from the manufacturer and the local fire protection agency.

Classification of Fires
Class A fires: Fires in ordinary combustible materials. On these, water or solutions containing large percentages of water are most effective.
Class B fires: Fires in flammable liquids, greases, etc. On these a blanketing effect is essential.
Class C fires: Fires in electrical equipment. On these the use of a nonconducting extinguishing agent is of first importance.

1.4.3 Types of Extinguishers
1. Carbon Dioxide Extinguishers: Carbon dioxide extinguishers are acceptable when the principal hazard is a Class B or Class C fire. Carbon dioxide portable installations should not exceed five pounds of agent per unit to ensure extinguisher portability and to minimize crew compartment CO2 concentrations.

2. Water Extinguishers: Water extinguishers are acceptable when the principal hazard is a Class A fire and where a fire might smolder if attacked solely by such agents as carbon dioxide or dry chemical. If water extinguishers will be subject to temperatures below freezing, the water extinguisher must be winterized by addition of a suitable anti-freeze.

3. Vaporizing Liquid Extinguishers: Vaporizing liquid type fire extinguishers are acceptable when the principal hazard is a Class B or Class C fire.

4. Dry Chemical Extinguishers: Dry chemical extinguishers using a bi-carbonate of sodium extinguishing agent or potassium bi-carbonate powder are acceptable where the principal hazard is a Class B or Class C fire. Dry chemical extinguishers using a so-called All Purpose Monoammonium Phosphate are acceptable where the hazard includes a Class A fire as well as Class B and Class C.
The size of the dry chemical extinguisher should not be less than two lbs. Only an extinguisher with a nozzle that can be operated either intermittently or totally by the operator should be installed. Some abrasion or corrosion of the insulation on electrical instruments, contacts or wiring may take place as a result of using this extinguisher. Cleaning and inspection of components should be carried out as soon as possible. Care should be taken when using this extinguisher in crew compartments because the chemical can interfere with visibility while it is being used and because the nonconductive powders may be deposited on electrical contacts not involved in the fire. This can cause equipment failure.

5. Halon Extinguishers: Halon 1211 is a colourless liquefied gas which evaporates rapidly, does not freeze or cause cold burn, does not stain fabrics nor cause corrosive damage. It is equally effective on an A, B or C class fire and has proven to be the most effective extinguishant on gasoline based upholstery fires. The size of a Halon 1211 extinguisher for a given cubic space should not result in a concentration of more than 5%. Halon 1211 is at least twice as effective as CO2 and is heavier than air (so it “sinks”). Decomposed Halon 1211 “stinks” so it is not likely to be breathed unknowingly.

6. Halon 1301 is less toxic than Halon 1211 but it is also less effective and is excellent for B or C class fires. A short-coming appears to be the lack of a visible “stream” on discharge; Halon 1301 turns into an invisible gas as it discharges.

[Bcone1381]

This thread is about fire extinguishers. My intent is not to drive the discussion away from them, but I think more about being able to shut off fuel at the source (the tank outlet) than fighting a fire.

[svyolo]

In Canada, you can’t opt out...fire extinguisher are mandatory:

602.60 Requirements for Power-driven Aircraft:
(1) No person shall conduct a take-off in a power-driven aircraft, other than an ultra-light aeroplane, unless the following operational and emergency equipment is carried on board:
a hand-held fire extinguisher in the cockpit that
(i) is of a type suitable for extinguishing fires that are likely to occur,
(ii) is designed to minimize the hazard of toxic gas concentrations, and
(iii) is readily available to each flight crew member;

Aircraft Hand Fire Extinguishers
1.4.1 General
When selecting a hand fire extinguisher for use in aircraft, consider the most appropriate extinguishing agent for the type and location of fires likely to be encountered. Take account of the agent’s toxicity, extinguishing ability, corrosive properties, freezing point, etc. The toxicity ratings listed by the Underwriters’ Laboratories for some of the commonly known fire extinguisher chemicals are as follows:

Bromotrifluoromethane (Halon 1301) – Group 6
Bromochlorodifluoromethane (Halon 1211) – Group 5a
Carbon dioxide – Group 5a
Common Dry Chemicals – Group 5a
Dibromidifluoromethane (Halon 1202) – Group 4*
Bromochlormethane (Halon 1011) – Group 4*
Carbon Tetrachloride (Halon 104) – Group 3*
Methyl bromide (Halon 1001) – Group 2*
*Should not be installed in an aircraft

It is generally realized that virtually any fire extinguishing agent is a compromise between the hazards of fire, smoke, fumes and a possible increase in hazard due to the toxicity of the extinguishing agent used. Hand fire extinguishers using agents having a rating in toxicity Groups 2 to 4 inclusive should not be installed in aircraft. Extinguishers in some of the older types of aircraft do not meet this standard and for such aircraft it is recommended that hand fire extinguishers employing agents in toxicity Group 5 or above be installed when renewing or replacing units and that they be of a type and group approved by the Underwriters’ Laboratories. It is further recommended that instruction in the proper use, care and cautions to be followed be obtained from the manufacturer and the local fire protection agency.

Classification of Fires
Class A fires: Fires in ordinary combustible materials. On these, water or solutions containing large percentages of water are most effective.
Class B fires: Fires in flammable liquids, greases, etc. On these a blanketing effect is essential.
Class C fires: Fires in electrical equipment. On these the use of a nonconducting extinguishing agent is of first importance.

1.4.3 Types of Extinguishers
1. Carbon Dioxide Extinguishers: Carbon dioxide extinguishers are acceptable when the principal hazard is a Class B or Class C fire. Carbon dioxide portable installations should not exceed five pounds of agent per unit to ensure extinguisher portability and to minimize crew compartment CO2 concentrations.

2. Water Extinguishers: Water extinguishers are acceptable when the principal hazard is a Class A fire and where a fire might smolder if attacked solely by such agents as carbon dioxide or dry chemical. If water extinguishers will be subject to temperatures below freezing, the water extinguisher must be winterized by addition of a suitable anti-freeze.

3. Vaporizing Liquid Extinguishers: Vaporizing liquid type fire extinguishers are acceptable when the principal hazard is a Class B or Class C fire.

4. Dry Chemical Extinguishers: Dry chemical extinguishers using a bi-carbonate of sodium extinguishing agent or potassium bi-carbonate powder are acceptable where the principal hazard is a Class B or Class C fire. Dry chemical extinguishers using a so-called All Purpose Monoammonium Phosphate are acceptable where the hazard includes a Class A fire as well as Class B and Class C.
The size of the dry chemical extinguisher should not be less than two lbs. Only an extinguisher with a nozzle that can be operated either intermittently or totally by the operator should be installed. Some abrasion or corrosion of the insulation on electrical instruments, contacts or wiring may take place as a result of using this extinguisher. Cleaning and inspection of components should be carried out as soon as possible. Care should be taken when using this extinguisher in crew compartments because the chemical can interfere with visibility while it is being used and because the nonconductive powders may be deposited on electrical contacts not involved in the fire. This can cause equipment failure.

5. Halon Extinguishers: Halon 1211 is a colourless liquefied gas which evaporates rapidly, does not freeze or cause cold burn, does not stain fabrics nor cause corrosive damage. It is equally effective on an A, B or C class fire and has proven to be the most effective extinguishant on gasoline based upholstery fires. The size of a Halon 1211 extinguisher for a given cubic space should not result in a concentration of more than 5%. Halon 1211 is at least twice as effective as CO2 and is heavier than air (so it “sinks”). Decomposed Halon 1211 “stinks” so it is not likely to be breathed unknowingly.

6. Halon 1301 is less toxic than Halon 1211 but it is also less effective and is excellent for B or C class fires. A short-coming appears to be the lack of a visible “stream” on discharge; Halon 1301 turns into an invisible gas as it discharges.

Exactly, but mine is the readers digest version.