Drawing my B model in Solidworks.

[svyolo]

You might want to run it by Bob. He might be interested in cutting files to sell along with plans for scratch builders that have access to CNC. It is common practice for yacht/boat designers to sell the rights to CNC cutting files, for one time use, for locally creating a boat kit.

Maybe you could work out an arrangement.

[quadra]

Digitizing the plans for your own use, on one build, would be no problem. Sharing them makes me cringe a little. Intellectual property, and all. I can't claim I have never compromised IP myself, but in a small community, I am not sure how welcome it would be.

I would be interested to hear from Bob on this as I have never heard of a "pirated" or non-licensed build of a Bearhawk... and to be honest I believe anyone who was serious about building, spending the time and money etc. would not bat an eye at the plan costs in order to have a legally licensed build with access to the latest information and support of the designer/community. I look at having a good CAD model as another tool, like a build guide, a capable secondary vendor, a video on youtube..or this forum! = a resource for builders that creates more answers than questions. I think the potential "problem" is one this community would confront if it were to happen... are there many ( any?) Bearhawks that were built from scratch without any forum participation?
I also would think that anyone inspecting or considering buying an amateur built aircraft would want to see a build that was above board in every aspect.

[spinningwrench]

The kit would benefit so much from having detailed assembly drawings, this is quite a new change in direction. As long a one is a licensed plan holder of Bob's drawings I am not seeing any infringement issues. Having detailed assembly drawings is no different than buying a picture pictorial from Eric Newton. Best yet would be to have Bob bless them but in the past I have run this by him and he doesn't see the need for them.

[Mikeos98]

Read the previous post from Mark G.

[Bcone1381]

A Solidworks freelancer with a 99% job success rate. It looks like the more recent jobs were done at $8/hr.

https://www.upwork.com/o/profiles/users/_~0198677ae7affa0c6f/

[quadra]

A Solidworks freelancer with a 99% job success rate. It looks like the more recent jobs were done at $8/hr.
https://www.upwork.com/o/profiles/us...77ae7affa0c6f/

i do not want to read too much in to this so... what are you trying to say with this post?

[Bcone1381]

What am I trying to say? “If a domestic solution is not doable, realize that there are solidworks professionals all over the world who are asking for work projects with very attractive laborer rates.”

That may upset some, but to me the information invites more questions and may open up opportunities for others. Maybe I should have emailed Mark instead of posting it in public.

My Impression:
1) The gatekeepers recognize a significant benefit exists to get the designs from paper into a digital format.
2) Funds are not available at a domestic labor rate to produce the design in a digital format.
3) maybe an $8/hr rate would Change things.
4) I should shut up because an international solution to get the designs put into a digital format may offend some folks.

Fact 2: In 2015 the average wage in Indonesia was $280/month. An $8 wage at 40hr/wk is $16,000/ year or $1333/ month or 400% above the average wage.
Fact 3: $8/ hour is not the price I suggest, it’s the price that was paid for recently completed jobs.

This precipitates thoughts & questions inside of me.

The Bearhawk designs have been industry leading for 25 years, but Paper only with no CNC code or digital design to manufacture parts or plan, or instruct is effecting builders decisions. Will our design be viable in the future if the design only stays on paper?
Would digital prints lower production cost and lower kit prices?
Where else can a digital format benefit besides its use in manufacturing of parts, problem solve or develop outstanding assembly instructions and modifications?

To the gatekeepers, I’m glad you are open to it and are working on it. Keep us posted and draw up the Patrol first!

[Archer39J]

My company has quite a bit of experience with offshore modeling and drawing, and we've completely moved away from that. You absolutely get what you pay for.

​​​​​​This is way more than just sending someone the plans and saying "model this". Engineering approvals, configuration management, revision control. You'll need standards and templates. Don't be distracted by a couple models and pattern features, there's a heck of a lot more to doing this well and in a way that benefits the community.

For example, do you want your rivet holes modeled nominally or maximum material condition? Class I, II, or class III clearance holes for hardware? If you have multiple people modeling this you want to make sure they're all on the same page or it can snowball pretty quickly.

[Archer39J]

Oh and please, PLEASE, model in standard aircraft coordinates (not SW defaults). You'll be doing future users a big favor if you do.

[JCD23]

Totally Agree with Archer39J! 100% Correct

[S Lathrop]

I will rephrase my earlier post.

I found that taking the prints that you get from Bob and making SolidWorks and AutoCad drawings from those prints was for me a very valuable exercise as I set about building my 4 place. The process of drawing helps me plan the building process and allows me to have dimensions that are not on the drawings to 3 decimal place accuracy. I do not have to scale dimensions from the drawings as I can get the exact measurement from the digital drawings. And as I noted earlier, I can make cutting templates from those drawings (SolidWorks) for complex miters. I did have the advantage of having used AutoCad and SolidWorks for many years prior to starting my scratch build project.

The dimensions on Bob's drawings are sufficient to make very good digital drawings in wither SW or AutoCad

[quadra]

What am I trying to say? “If a domestic solution is not doable, realize that there are solidworks professionals all over the world who are asking for work projects with very attractive laborer rates.”

That may upset some, but to me the information invites more questions and may open up opportunities for others. Maybe I should have emailed Mark instead of posting it in public.

My Impression:
1) The gatekeepers recognize a significant benefit exists to get the designs from paper into a digital format.
2) Funds are not available at a domestic labor rate to produce the design in a digital format.
3) maybe an $8/hr rate would Change things.
4) I should shut up because an international solution to get the designs put into a digital format may offend some folks.

Fact 2: In 2015 the average wage in Indonesia was $280/month. An $8 wage at 40hr/wk is $16,000/ year or $1333/ month or 400% above the average wage.
Fact 3: $8/ hour is not the price I suggest, it’s the price that was paid for recently completed jobs.

This precipitates thoughts & questions inside of me.

The Bearhawk designs have been industry leading for 25 years, but Paper only with no CNC code or digital design to manufacture parts or plan, or instruct is effecting builders decisions. Will our design be viable in the future if the design only stays on paper?
Would digital prints lower production cost and lower kit prices?
Where else can a digital format benefit besides its use in manufacturing of parts, problem solve or develop outstanding assembly instructions and modifications?

To the gatekeepers, I’m glad you are open to it and are working on it. Keep us posted and draw up the Patrol first!

👍 Thanks!!
..this type of project is much needed, but also very large and complex, as Dave points out in the post above you will not get what you need if it is not defined and managed from the start.
In terms of project management it would be a very good idea to ensure a standardized format is developed from the start for consistency across the models.

[spinningwrench]

I have been involved with a number of CAD designs were work was parceled out between multiple drafters. It is imperative that standards are established early in the process so everything comes together in the final assembly. The way VANs, RANS, Sonex does this is to have a CAD person working next to the prototype person so design and more importantly assembly issues get solved immediately and the drawings accurately reflect the designers intent. I have found that most my questions are not parts related since I have a quick build but rather how does this thing assemble. Isometric assembly drawings with parts call out would be invaluable.

[way_up_north]

So far this is what I have Done.

Your stuff looks great...

could you do a youtube video on working in solid works to make aircraft parts and assemblies

It could be just generic rib and parts...ect

There just is not that much online focused on this. In fact near zero

It would be a huge help to the whole aviation community with EAA offering solidworks for free.


Thanks

[way_up_north]

As a side note to all this... I contacted shaper origin ... to see if they would allow a manufacturer to license a cad part through thier computer controlled tool...but they don’t offer this yet

[Bentmettle]

Was there additional motion on creating a solid model assembly of the plane to go along with the plans?

I ended up in this (older) thread looking around to see what people have done with CNC routing MDF for forming sheet metal and/or cutting other parts.

[JohnBergt]

Mark I will call tomorrow sometime.

so did anything come out of this? And if so, can I offer up my help to do the model 5? Be a great way to get ahead on my eventual build.

[Mark Goldberg]

Not a lot has happened. It is a big project, as you likely know, to draw up the plane in Solid Works. If you have interest in doing some work on this you could earn some brownie points towards a kit or parts. Give a call if you want to discuss. Mark 512/626-7886