Bearhawk 5 under Mosaic LSA Rules

[Latitude28]

First time posting long time lurking......Under the "new" MOSAIC rules one can fly a type certificated four seat aircraft with one pax. You cannot fly a type certificated six seat aircraft with two seats removed. Aircraft like the C180/C185 and Maule plus others are "type certificated' with more than four seats. The point being you can't remove the extra seats to make it a four seat aircraft and fly it as LSA under MOSAIC. My question; Since Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft don't have a TCDS can the BH5 be built and flown with four seats to qualify it as LSA? Thank you in advance for the responses!

[Astro John]

I asked a buddy who is an FAA Inspector, and he didn't know. I don't see why you couldn't certify that seating capacity of a BH5 with only 4 seats. One question I also have is if you do certify it with 4 seats, would it be possible to re-certify it with 6 at some point, if you wanted to?

[Latitude28]

That is the thinking I am leaning on is the "builder" is the one who determines the gross weight of the aircraft during certification. The builder is responsible for the weight and balance of the aircraft as documented and approved by the DAR in the Pilots Operation Handbook. Stands to reason the "builder" is the one who would determine the number of seats and weight carried in the "baggage" compartment as the EAB builders name is on the data plate. Same logic applies to the holder of a TCDS determines the seating of the certified aircraft. Changing it later to fit yours or the next persons mission profile. Off the cuff, I would think it would open up a new phase 1 flight test and recertification....not sure about that one.

[jaredyates]

619MS, the plane in the header picture above, only ever had four seats as far as I know. It was an extremely capable 4-seater. If you wanted to change from 4 to 6 I would check with the DAR you plan to use, since their interpretation is the only one that matters.

[gregc]

In the end it will be up to your DAR and local FSDO. I would 'guess' that as long as you have only 4 seats for the inspection and issuance of the special airworthiness certificate and it meets the LSA limits, you could do it. I doubt that an after the fact conversion from 6 to 4 would be approved. My personal feeling is that operating a BH5 under sport pilot limitations doesn't make a lot of sense. A PPL and Basic Med are a better match to capabilities of the airplane.

[Latitude28]

That is what I was thinking about the DAR/FSDO inspection just wondering if anyone has been there done that. Agreed, the BH5 is a highly capable aircraft better utilized with PPL and Basic Med. Our rationale and mission profile for the aircraft is for two people, four seats two removable (resale ability), high useful load for camping gear and float possibilities later on while retaining a respectable useful load.

[Astro John]

I am not sold on Basic Med at all. If you look at the checklist that Doctors are required to use, it seems way more thorough than Class 3. I have been hearing that not many Doctors even want to take on the responsibility of signing off on Basic Med.

Here is a link to the FAA's pdf file for basic med: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...XP_06-2026.pdf

From my perspective, it would be a lot easier to continue flying using sport pilot rules than anything else. That is why I want to certify my BH5 with only 4 seats.

[Utah-Jay]

Unless you want to or need to have more than 1 passenger why would anyone want to deal with any level of medical beyond the Sport Pilot (Drivers License) level?

I have no desire to potentially get caught up an that stuff

[Astro John]

IFR and night flying would be the only other reasons. But, if you fail an FAA medical for any reason, you can't fly under sport pilot until you get at least a Class 3 again.

[gregc]

I agree that the ability to fly with nothing more than a driver's license is a great thing but Basic Med gets you night, IFR, and more than 1 passenger privileges with no real risk and very little extra cost/effort. You can't 'fail' a Basic Med medical. Your physician can decline to sign the form and that's it. The FAA never gets a copy of the signed form, although you must be able to provide it if asked. It is good for 4 years. The physical exam checklist is generic and bureaucratic but the certification your physician makes is pretty mild: "I certify that I am not aware of any medical condition that, as presently treated, could interfere with the individual's ability to safely operate an aircraft." Personally I'd like to think that I would have enough sense not to fly, especially with a passenger, if I couldn't meet that minimal standard.

[Utah-Jay]

Astro John

Good points!

Night/IFR

NO CHANCE in my case, I live in a valley surrounded by 10-12,000’ mountains.

I have zero interest in night flying or IFR in and out of Heber City.

So I get it for other pilots and pilots in flatter areas of the country.

[Bearhawk Aircraft]

Under the new mosaic rules the Bearhawk Five can be flown as a light sport if built and registered as a four seat aircraft. We have had several customers do this with the new rules coming about this year.

[Latitude28]

Thank you BH Aircraft......great to know. Now off to convince the CFO :-)

[Untainted123]

Also certifying with 6 seats will most likely come with a heavy insurance penalty. Does anyone know if you “certify” with 4 seats, is it legal to use jump/temporary seats for 5 or 6 seats (insurance payouts notwithstanding)? Also also, when I did my paperwork with my DAR, his self made forms asked how many seats, but I don’t see where that gets recorded at the FAA level or used on any of the FAA forms I filled out. If it does, where can I find that info? Otherwise, once you are done with the DAR, does anyone actually know how many seats you built it for?