Anybody stop by the Grand Rapids booth at OSH?

[whee]

Was just looking at their website and noticed their new Sport EX 7". Looks like a good piece of equipment that will do all I want for $1500 and you can upgrade it as you desire more features. Did anybody stop by the booth and take a look at the Sport EX?

[JimParker256]

I looked at it briefly. I'm considerably older than you (60, and been wearing reading glasses since 40, so take that into account), but I found the display a bit difficult to read at "panel" distances. There did not seem to be any way to adjust the text size, which seemed to be too small to me, and the info on the display appeared "crowded" to me. I just could not get comfortable with the Sport EX 7", so will be spending more money with Garmin or Dynon...

[Av8rPaul]

After looking at a bunch of the different EFIS displays, I think a 7" would be a good back up screen or as a primary EIS screen. The Garmin G3X Touch in 10.6" and 7" had beautiful displays, the Dynon stuff was also very nice. I did not get by the GRT booth unfortunately.

[marcusofcotton]

I don't look at any of them too closely as panel is a long ways out, but GRT has been consistently high on my list.

[whee]

Thanks for the replies guys. Like I've said before, I don't really want glass in the panel but I just makes too much sense to not using it in a experimental. The Sport EX should make a great engine monitor display and will show more flight information than I'll likely ever need.

I'm still thinking I'll go with something like this minus the GTN650:

[Av8rPaul]

Would using a Grand Rapids display and the EIS require two separate sets of of sensors? What is that on the far left of your panel?

[whee]

The EIS doesn't require separate sensors. Actually the EIS is required and is what feeds the information to the Sport. Basically the Sport is a pretty screen and the EIS is the brains.

On the far left is the intercom. It will likely end up somewhere on the right side of the panel.

[Bcone1381]

This link is my favorite "Steamer Gage" Airspeed Indicator.

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/winter/6FMS-443-6443.jpg

The needle swings 510 degrees, has a arc thru 40 knot index giving the most precise indication I have ever seen. And that 40 knot index position is perfect at 3 oclock!

Brooks Cone
Patrol #303
Making a transition from Scratch Building to a Kit

[Bdflies]

"Making a transition from Scratch Building to a Kit"

Wise move! Still lots to do. Just not quite as much elephant to eat.

[whee]

That's a pretty cool Airspeed indicator. Too bad they don't have it in mph, on the other hand I could see it being a little difficult in IMC.

[marcusofcotton]

Same distributer, W-6422, 3 1/8" 0-180mph; W-7422, 2 1/4" 0-180mph. Other options available.

[John Bickham]

Jon,

If planning on night VFR or IMC, the GRT Sport has a secondary power input that can be wired in directly. Most of the others require an external backup battery. Can help avoid that 30 second re-boot if there was a little electrical blip in the dark, dark. Just cut out my instrument panel yesterday. Will be taping and grinning shortly.

[BAnton]

Would like to see a photo of you panel. I'm just starting to design mine.

[Av8rPaul]

That's a pretty cool Airspeed indicator. Too bad they don't have it in mph, on the other hand I could see it being a little difficult in IMC.

+1 on the difficult in IMC. Am I overspeeding, or did the plane stall and is falling out of the sky in the clouds? It probably works awesome for gliders but I wouldn't be comfortable putting in my plane.

[Bcone1381]

Difficulty in IMC? Because it has a 510 degree sweep? I would not and still do not fathom that even as a concern to be considered for anyone on this forum. You are all good enough to know your airspeed +/- 20 mph without any indicator just by looking out the window (aircraft attitude) and listening to the airplane (wind noise, engine noise)...feeling the controls, even position of the trim lever. One who is experienced in their aircraft can get it down to 10 mph I bet. I still think its the best Airspeed display I've seen. Especially when doing a STOL approach!

If my above reply seems a little bit extreme, I suggest you go flying, put yourself in a very safe environment, and cover up your airspeed indicator as though it has failed. See how you do changing speeds, and even stalling the aircraft. Set yourself up at a landing speed and then peek at it and see how you are doing. You'll be surprised I bet at how close you can guess your speed.

Instruments fail, and it should not result in a catastrophic scary ending when a bug impacts our pitot tube, or one takes off with it still covered up. Even in IMC. Again, I suggest practice until a comfort level i achieved. I am confident that Your skill level is probably already there.

Brooks Cone

[whee]

In VMC there is no need for an AS indicator but from my very limited experience in IMC I wouldn't even think about using a gauge such as this. When in the clouds you can't trust anything your butt is telling you, that's how people die. If both the GRT and the steam gauge failed in IMC then it's pretty much game over.

Like I said, very cool looking instrument and nice that is reads so slow but it's just not for me.

[JimParker256]

In IMC, I would not want to trust my ability to "feel" the difference between almost stalling it and exceeding VNE. Too many people have died that way...

That said, I think it's pretty darn cool for VFR. Is the brand "Winter"?

[Bcone1381]

Whee and Jim,

I do speak from the view point an extensive amount of instrument flying experience. I had a few years teaching instruments students in the late 1980's, before magenta lines, auto pilots, and flat panels. I have had a vacuum system failure in the 1989 while flying a light twin as a single pilot in IMC with no auto pilot while holding over an NDB, then subsequently shooting the NDB approach. I have lost an airspeed indicator for real, and returned for landing just fine. I think I had about 6000 hours before I flew an aircraft with an autopilot in about 1992. Who knows what other experiences I have that qualifies me to speak as with a bit of experience and authority.

But, If you don't think you can feel, hear and sense, see clues from your other instruments and engine throttle position in a Bearhawk between a zero airspeed indication and 130 kts (150mph), then thats ok. Take the opportunity to try it some day.

I personally believe anyone on this forum would not suddenly find themselves in a surprised quagmire, wondering what there airspeed is from a perfectly good instrument, given that they also scan their attitude indicator, know their throttle position, can see their vertical speed indicator, and see the reaction to the altimeter. Its elementary stuff that should be taught, and fully understood in the beginning of instrument flying. If one is flying IMC with your autopilot on, reading the newspaper, eating fried chicken and drinking lemonade, then look up...well, your gonna have to interpret those other flight instruments. I personally don't recommend removing yourself so far from mentally from the game in real IMC. But even if one does, its still no big deal. You got lots of indications to tell you whats going on. The sound and the feeling of flight control, and position o the yoke is part of it that one may call seat of the pants, but not he sole source. And yes hour head will lie to you on occasion (Vertigo).

This is also coming from a person who seriously questions why todays pilots all think they need an autopilot to safely fly IMC. I just don't understand. Do they teach Instrument Students to always use the autopilot now to the point where it is relied upon? Once upon a time the examiner would have called that cheating.

That is bad place to put oneself. If one has to have an autopilot to feel safe flying IMC, then I would argue they are not safe flying IMC.

I love the opportunity to put my hand eye coordination to the test and click off the autopilot/flight director and do a little raw data flying for a change. I suggest others learn to have that same love. And those of us like me hopefully won't find ourselves in the position that Air France did over the atlantic.

Again, I just can't fathom your concern, and I have been there, trust me. You are all better than that.

I read my post over again, and maybe I am not qualified to understand your concern. The recreational privet pilot who flies IFR has a very large task to fulfill. Three hours of Instrument time every 6 months is hard to come by. Flying 6 instrument approaches during that time just adds to its complexity. If one is not connected to a club like the EAA's IMC club where there are constantly pushing themselves with a group of others, then it really becomes easy to fall out of currency. SO, it may be better for me to just no recommend one go the instrument certified aircraft, thinking they are going to add all this capability. The cost is significant, and it can just lead to some pressure that is necessary when the weather is not very good.

So, disregard my recommendation...but I am going to put that Airspeed Indicator in my airplane, by golly!