Derailed Build Plan

[Archer39J]

So here I am buying tools, getting my shop set up, and getting ready to look at partially completed builds for an RV-10. I even had plans to put in ER tanks, and maybe by the time I was ready the CD-230 would be far enough along they'd have a complete FWF kit to offer. Recently I've been getting into more back country flying and was imagining a SuperSTOL as my second build, perhaps far in the future when my first build is paid off, then a colleague tells me about the 4-place Bearhawk...


It really seems like the plane to fit my mission, though I do have a few questions:

Is the 4-place a solid IFR performer? I don't know much about fabric covered aircraft but I think the answer to this is yes.

Has anyone thought about putting a CD-230 in one of these? I haven't been able to find anything related to diesels except for auto conversions which is not something I'll be doing.

I appreciate any advice for an undecided builder, thanks.

[jaredyates]

Welcome to the group! Isn't it something how crucial all of that pre-build research is. Last time I was there, I thought it was also a fun phase of the project, having already decided to build an airplane, and now just narrowing down which one to build. I'll take a stab at your questions, but keep in mind the answers will be worth about what you paid for them.

I'm not sure how to answer the IFR question. I haven't flown an RV-10 yet, but if it is anything like the little RVs, the Bearhawk will be much easier to fly by reference to instruments. The Bearhawk is much more responsive on the controls than something like a C172 or C182, but it is not as responsive as a 2-seat RV. My hangar neighbor says that if he were to lose his RV-7's autopilot in IMC, he'd declare an emergency out of concern for not being able to take his eyes off of the panel, lest he look up and find himself 300 feet high and banked 45 degrees.

Your choice of equipment in the panel will have a lot to do with the capabilities of the airplane, but I can't see any reason that it shouldn't perform fine in IMC from an airframe standpoint. I certainly can't see any reason why the fuselage being fabric would make any difference. The wings are very similar to an RV in the way they are built, excepting that the flaps and ailerons are fabric-covered. You'll have no trouble installing a heated pitot, and most of us are getting good static measurements with a port on each side of the rear fuselage.

Our little blue Bearhawk (in the avatar picture) his equipped for IFR, but I haven't flown it that way much yet. I keep saying I need to go out and practice flying under the hood for a few hours, but still it hasn't happened. This was in part delayed by replacing the old Dynon panel with a Skyview system, and installing autopilot servos that I still have not been able to get dialed in yet. There have been sufficient other life priorities that have been more pressing, and just when it seems like the servos are next on the to-do list, something else pops up. The latest is that I'm planning to spend the next two days installing a new ELT, being that the other one seems to have quit working. I can give lots of excuses, but a big factor is that I have not often found myself needing to get somewhere bad enough to file IFR in a light single-engine airplane to get there, especially with the family on board.

I'm not familiar with that particular diesel, but I will say that Mark Goldberg was just doing lots of research on diesel options for the Patrol. If you are considering the kit option vs scratch building (and I hope you are), you might get in touch with Mark to talk about what he has learned. I haven't yet met anyone who has installed a diesel, but if there is anyone doing it on a kit-built Bearhawk, he is probably aware. You'll find several discussions in the archives here where new folks come to the group with grand ideas of engines that are less-frequently installed, and the regulars try and talk new folks out of choosing an engine other than the ones that are well-documented (like the Lycoming O-360 and O-540), so I'll not try to repeat those discussions. I'm already well into the territory of answering questions that you didn't ask, which is not a productive way to make friends. The short version, which hopefully you already know, is that you'll need to disregard any estimates of build time or flight performance, since you'll be paving your own new path for both. There will be lots of problems to solve, and we'll look forward to hearing about your adventures in overcoming them.

Where are you, geographically speaking?

[Archer39J]

Thanks for the welcome Jared! That's an interesting consideration for the RV, I hadn't heard it before. I've spent most of my time and energy researching on VAF and I've been preparing to rivet, prime and paint a primarily metal aircraft so this is quite a departure from those efforts. Luckily I've not invested much in tooling that won't be applicable to a Bearhawk, though I do feel out of my element again as I know very little about fabric covered aircraft or even tail wheels in general.

Yeah I'm interested in building a solid IFR machine as I'm in the Pacific Northwest based out of Paine Field (KPAE) just North of Seattle. Right now I'm flying a PA-28-181 Archer II so the RV-10 or the Bearhawk are both significant upgrades. The solid XC and STOL abilities of the Bearhawk will work well for my missions around the Western US, all for a cheaper price and better view apparently.

The Continental CD-230 is something I've just become aware of: http://continentalmotors.aero/upload...cSheet-WEB.pdf

It's a 230HP TDI, there is one confirmed flying in an RV-10 as of April and we've been following its updates on VAF. Builder seems to be working closely with Continental, and another builder was talking about working with them as well.

[Mark Goldberg]

Hello Archer39J. I have a little knowledge of the CD230 and it would work in a 4 place BH but is a little heavy. I knew a distributor for that diesel in Mexico and saw him install one in a C182. He claimed it was a strong performer with a lot of torque/pull on takeoff. I am getting ready to send some drawings to a diesel manufacturer in the UK who is making a lower cost/simpler diesel according to a man in Nevada who knows a lot about diesels in airplanes. That man is also interested in putting a diesel on a 4 place BH.

If you would like to discuss, get in touch. N95MF@hotmail.com
Mark

[whee]

I'm glad Mark and Jared replied, good guys with lots of knowledge. I so badly wanted to install a diesel engine in my airplane but I couldn't make it work; the cost was just too high. I couldn't make the numbers work to justify the additional cost but I hope someone is willing to do it.

My long term plan is to get my instrument rating and equip my BH for it. My only concern with flying the BH in IMC is how it requires constant attention when loaded near the aft CG limit. I find it fatiguing in VMC so doing it in IMC may be more than I can handle...we'll see eventually.

[Archer39J]

Hi Mark. Yeah the CD-230 is certainly heavier but seems to be about the weight of an IO-540, model depending. This could also help ameliorate some of the CG issues I've seen mentioned. Initial price, TBO, and overhaul costs are certainly something to keep in mind going turbo. But the cruise altitude performance is making me seriously consider it. I'm quite interested to learn more about other possibilities.

[Mark Goldberg]

Contact me privately to discuss. Above I gave you my email. My cell is 512/626-7886. MG

[rv8bldr]

Having built an RV-8, I can attest to the fact you will reuse ALL of those tools on a Bearhawk. The wings are extremely RV like, and there are aluminum skins to deal with on the fuselage.

Cheers

Mark

[Archer39J]

Hey Mark, good to hear! Though I'll certainly be going the QB route. Just getting a handle on what's required reading the build instructions from the Bearhawk site. Honestly it seems like the amount of fabrication and leeway in overall build is more up my alley than the RV builds. Having to source the hardware is something I wasn't expecting, and it seems that'll add nearly another $6k to the build if you use hardware kits.

I was going to ask fellow builders if anyone had a hardware list for their 4 place. I'm an aerospace design engineer myself so I'm quite familiar with aerospace design, fabrication, and construction and I'm really looking forward to starting my build.

[whee]

There is a hardware list in the manual on bearhawkaircraft.com. I used that list to order my hardware for my mixed build (scratch with many factory parts) and about 2/3 of the hardware worked for me, which is about what I expected. I can't remember the exact cost but it was significantly less expensive than ordering a hardware kit.

[Archer39J]

Ah, I see the hardware list now thanks. It seems I may have misunderstood the Wicks kits, I was thinking all 4 were required but it looks like some of those are for fabricating your own parts as well and aren't needed with a QB kit. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems one would only need to purchase the airframe kit? Just doing a test cart on AircraftSpruce it seems the kit price might be pretty competitive with ordering your own parts, understanding that any HW kit is going to need additions of course.