Horner Wing Tips from D & E Aircraft

[Utah-Jay]

whee posted about a new Horner wingtip from D & E, I just got off the phone with D & E and they currently do not have a wingtip for the Riblett 30-4135, they do have one with a slightly higher profile, but…. He is checking to see if his mold builder can/would be willing to build for the 30-4135.

His price is $1000.00 for the one he currently has, so I am thinking the price would be the same or close.

He is scheduled to get back to me later this week with an answer.

Is anyone else interested in Horner wingtips?

[kestrel]

Yes. ...but curious how D&E would compare with Carbon Concepts? Why are we looking for a 2nd source? (not complaining, just wondering the thought process)

[DBeaulieu]

Dave here...soon to be Patrol builder...kit scheduled in this month. I am interested in Horner tips from either source. I wasn't aware there was a place that produced them and wasn't looking foreward to trying to fabricate.
Jay - please let me know what info you discover...
Kestrel - do you know of anyone who has the Carbon Concept wingtips on a Patrol?

Cheers

[whee]

Yes. ...but curious how D&E would compare with Carbon Concepts? Why are we looking for a 2nd source? (not complaining, just wondering the thought process)

I can tell you my reasoning. IMO, the CC tips are pretty far from the Hoerner shape, so much so that I doubt they are providing the benefit of Hoerner shape. It does sounds like that are good tips though. I specifically want the Hoerner shape for the potential benefits. The D&E tips appear to be very close; likely as close as economically manufacturable.

I haven’t had the chance to call them yet to get dimensions but for $1000 I’d be willing to do some cutting and fitting to make them work.

[Utah-Jay]

As whee mentioned, I believe the D & E are a true Horner and while I have not priced the CC wingtips, I was under the impression they were pretty expensive. Price anyone?

That being said, I am only interested in doing this if it is:
1) a direct match to my airfoil shape so as not to require a bunch of fabricating.
2) not more than 10 AMU’s… I am over budget already and my pockets are thin.

Honestly I can stomach $1K for a potential stall decrease of 3-5 mph as I am looking for slow speed improvements for my mission. Having read a lot so far today (more reading to come tomorrow) about the benefits, some have said (Cessna based) that the Horner wingtip can increase cruise speed. But Battson has stated he lost a bit of cruise, but he also made multiple changes simultaneously which makes it very difficult to quantify.

[Battson]

Did the wingtips alone change the cruise speed? With the benefit of more experience, I doubt I could measure any change.

Did they change the STOL performance? We are consistently touching down at less than 37 KTAS or GS on a windless day, with about 40% of the max useful load on board. Climb performance is remarkably good. Takeoffs are so short its hard to measure improvement.

In that post (06-09-2018, 07:12 PM) the mods I recalled included 31" tires, oversize tailwheel, vortex generators, and 16" extended hoerner wingtips. I thought with all that, it was perhaps 5kts slower in LOP cruise. Most of that is probably the tires.

[kestrel]

Kestrel - do you know of anyone who has the Carbon Concept wingtips on a Patrol?

I haven't kept track of what types I've seen them reported on because they are almost all the same. With the exception of the original 4 place and the LSA, all the Bearhawk wings will fit the same wingtip. The Patrol, Companion, Bravo and Five all share the same wing geometry.

I can tell you my reasoning. IMO, the CC tips are pretty far from the Hoerner shape, so much so that I doubt they are providing the benefit of Hoerner shape. It does sounds like that are good tips though. I specifically want the Hoerner shape for the potential benefits. The D&E tips appear to be very close; likely as close as economically manufacturable.

I haven’t had the chance to call them yet to get dimensions but for $1000 I’d be willing to do some cutting and fitting to make them work.

The CC tip shape does annoy me. IMHO, the tip on our older RV-4 is a very good rendition of a Hoerner tip. The CC is too rounded. ...but, given the amount of work in building an airplane, that the wing tip is trivially replaced later if desired and that the CC tip should be 90% of the way there from the round stock tip; I wouldn't reject the CC tip. If there is a better option, I'm interested.

Can I see a picture of a D&E tip somewhere? I think I found their website and it is dreadful. https://www.de-aircraft.com

Here are some images of what I believe a Hoerner tip should look like:

https://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?41894-Wing-Tip-Shape-Summary&p=523400&viewfull=1#post523400

Huh... the next post in that Super Cub thread claims to show D&E tips, but it looks like 2 different types maybe?

https://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?41894-Wing-Tip-Shape-Summary&p=523410&viewfull=1#post523410

[Ryan Koeneke]

As whee mentioned, I believe the D & E are a true Horner and while I have not priced the CC wingtips, I was under the impression they were pretty expensive. Price anyone?

Hey I talked with Randy at Carbon Concepts and his price was $950 a set late last year, so pretty comparable. However, getting them out of Alaska and down to the lower 48 has an estimated cost of $300 for shipping. That might be reason enough to have a second option for us non-AK guys.

I'm definitely interested if you want to add another name to the wait-list!!!

[schu]

I need tips for my A model wing. I'm ready to order.... who do I need to call?

[Utah-Jay]

I’ll touch base with D & E again tomorrow