LSA Wheel and Brake Selection Guidance

[lsa140]

Very interesting, I'm glad you've brought this up. As far as I know, Matco does not make a weld on 1-1/4 axle. I've been planning on using a set of pre threaded and ground axles from Aircraft Spruce: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...p?recfer=23685 These have 12tpi threads, I believe Cub 1-1/4 axles do as well. Looking closer, the LSA plans call for 16 threads per inch. The bolt on Matco A3A uses the 16tpi as well. I'm assuming the finer threads would help in attaining proper bearing preload and pinning the axle nut.

Did you cut your axles from tubing, or purchase a pre made set?

Did this SB you were referring to that detailed this spacer come with your wheel and brake kit? I sent the drawing to George at Matco looking for guidance on which products to order for my application last week. He didn't mention anything about the spacer you have shown in the photos above. I was assuming that the bearing rest against the 1-1/2" axle sleeve shoulder, and the seal came around the 1-1/2" axle sleeve.

[stinger]

I bought the Matco wheel kit not aware of the additional requirement as the planes showed no indication . I read the installation manual and called Matco. The person I spoke to also indicated the need to preload the bearings by means of direct contact to the rubber seals adhered directly to the bearing . You may not see it in the picture but there is also a sleeve spacer on the axle under the inside stand off spacer that is to contact the rubber on the bearing , sounds confusing . Yes I made my axles from stock. No there was no info as to the preload spacers, but when you tighten the nut one can see its not right. Good Luck. Stinger

[lsa140]

I appreciate the info. I'll touch base with Matco before ordering. It sounds like the bearings require enough friction to counteract the resistance caused by the axle seal making contact with the surface of the metal. I read elsewhere that Matco had a batch of bearings go out that had a harder rubber seal, and even when tightened properly, the seal would cause the bearing to spin. How was the fit of the bearing on the 1-1/4" tubing you made the axles from? I wonder if the Matco bolt on axles have tighter tolerances to help keep the bearings from spinning. The bolt on A3A axle they sell looks similar to the profile shown on the plans. Others have a small flange machined in the axle at the inside bearing location.

Grove uses traditional felt seals. Beringer uses lifetime sealed ball bearings.

[lsa140]

On a trailer, the seal presses into the hub, spins with it, and lightly grips the axle to create a seal. There is not a lot of surface area to create friction. With the sealed tapered bearings that Matco uses the seal is supposed to remain stationary on the axle, and the hub spins against its outer edge. The larger diameter sealing surface creates more friction, and has the potential to spin the bearing on the axle. The bearing is not pressed onto anything, and relies on the amount of preload created by the axle nut to resist spinning with the hub, on the axle. I wonder how they do in bellow zero temps, I imagine that large seal is stiff, and applies a decent amount of friction on the hub.

[lsa140]

Talked with George at Matco today. Stinger is correct. (thanks again - this is what I appreciate about a community of builders). Matco is currently recommending a 2" diameter flat surface fixed to the axle for the inside bearing seal to rest against. They have an axle nut with a larger machined face that engages that outside bearing seal, and helps secure it. It sounds like they can machine a custom spacer that will slide over the axle for around $60 each, and be locked in rotation by engaging the brake plate mount bolts. This could be used on the stock axle setup without modification. They do not currently offer any kind of weld on axle with this setup that would work for the LSA. Talk to Matco for further details. I don't know if this is now a mandatory axle setup, or if is just now preferred to help insure the bearings and seals do not spin on the axle.

I will still likely move forward with Matco, but do have a little reservation about the axle preload pushing against bearing seals and the possibility of bearing spin as wear is incurred, and preload lost. I understand that proper setup and maintenance would alleviate any concern. I can see where a tapered roller bearing with an outside seal is a simple installation, but I prefer the concept of the seal/spinning surface contact happening at the axle diameter, not the larger diameter of the inside hub.

[lsa140]

Went ahead and ordered the 8" Matco wheels, double caliper brakes, and 27" Desser Tundra tires. I'll likely end with smaller tires on another set of rims for when the larger tires aren't needed, or with wheel skis during the winter months.

[whee]

Shoulda gone with 10" wheels and 31" dessers

[lsa140]

Sure gave it some thought... I think the 27s and BH tundra tailwheel will work really well on soft, sandy beaches, and won't cut into my cruise speeds too much. I also liked the option to run the 21" tires Bob and Mark are running on the same rims.

[whee]

I was just ribbing you a little. 27" tires are a good choice I think.

[lsa140]

I'm sure I'll get some ribbing for flying around something other than a cub with 35" bushwheels.

[Chris In Milwaukee]

Shoulda gone with 10" wheels and 31" dessers

Where does one find 10" wheels? I was looking at Matco today, and it looks like they have up to 8's, but I didn't spend a lot of time looking. I've seen them on the Murphy Moose and I they're pretty cool.

[lsa140]

Airframes Alaska sells a heavier duty 10" http://www.airframesalaska.com/10-x-.../abi-10650.htm

Matco sells a 10" MH series wheels for the LSA market http://www.matcomfg.com/MHE10BESERIE...v-3758-30.html

[Chris In Milwaukee]

Wow, spendy buggers, aren't they (the AA wheels)?

[lsa140]

They are... I got a quote from Beringer for some 6" wheels for the LSA out of curiosity, just under $1,800 for the two wheels alone. (no brakes) They make a beautiful product, but that is a bit steep for me. The double caliper matco wheels/brakes, 27" tires, and tundra tailwheel setup came in under $3,000. I'll have a little more in master cylinders and other parts, but that seems like a good value for what I'm getting.