Patrol on Amphibs

[Steve W]

I understand there are several builders that are looking to put their Patrols on amphib floats. I was wondering what their progress was on finding floats, mounting location, problems discovered etc.
I picked a set of damaged Whip 2100A’s last fall and rebuilt them over the winter. Price on parts was an eye opener in both directions. Specialized parts were extremely pricy but anything available in raw material was a bargain. I am ready to put the plane on the floats but will likely wait until the spring so I have something to fly through the winter. I expect a lengthy delay getting my C of A back from Transport Canada.
I did a rough mock up to get approximate lengths needed for the struts.
Would like to hear back from others on their projects.

[Sir Newton]

Steve, You have my attention with your awesome project. We share the same mind set. Floats meet BearHawk !

[BravoGolf]

Those are beautiful and you are miles ahead of me

[Ed Welfred]

I am building for floats but am a few years away from floats but I did just get my precover inspection. In southern Ontario off airport pretty much means on water. I think you are the one we will be watching. Hope the standard info on float alignment will be applicable to the Patrol.

Ed

[500AGL]

I doubt John has any time to get on the forum but there is a patrol under construction in VT/NH that is going on a set of Montana Amphibs. Dave is helping out and the electric-hydraulic pump is mounted behind the baggage. The reports from others is the Montana floats work great, so by next summer we will see this one flying.

pb

[Steve W]

I’ve seen the pictures of a Patrol fuse on the red Montanas’ that Father Joe had for sale. From everything I have read, I will place the center of mass of the floats on the empty C of G. Because of the big flaps on the Patrol, I will start with 3 to 3.25 degrees of throat angle and have an adjustable rear gear strut to fine tune. I will use all six attach points. I fabricated the four front landing gear blocks yesterday with a 4* offset or twist, 2 left, 2 right. The rear strut top fitting will be a large rod end threaded into an aluminum block in the strut. The rear angle of assembly would be hard to anticipate so I went with this type of attachment.
Good thing I decided to complete the mounting next spring. Two of the original model front hydraulic cylinders arrived defective from their manufacturer and there is a two month lead time on replacement. Makes me a little gun shy on using the cylinders but whip used them for over 20 years before replacing them with the repairable type. $150 for the old model and 2K for the new one. 8K to replace all four.
I thought there was a builder a number of years ago that was looking for amphib floats for his Patrol? I gathered he would have been way ahead of me at this point.

[500AGL]

Steve, if you want to chat with an extremely knowledgeable pilot/builder regarding floats, and the one that set up John’s Montana floats for his patrol, and me a message and I’ll pass on contact info.

[Steve W]

Thanks. I think I’ve chatted with him on the Cub website. Skywagon something? This will be my third amateur built on floats and am pretty confident with my numbers. But if someone sees something previously mentioned that disagrees with their experience or thought, please let me know. As I indicated before, I thought someone was already way down the road on mounting amphibs on a Patrol and was possibly flying to see how it all went.

[Steve W]

So the Patrol is on the float gear. I located the c of g of the floats on the plane’s empty c of g. Haven’t crunched the numbers yet. Need to finish the hydraulic lines, brake lines and electrical. A fairing will come later to cover the hoses and stuff between the two front attach points. Roughly 400 lbs for the floats and related parts. 85 lbs was the weight of the main gear, shocks and tail wheel assembly. Going to 2200 lbs gross weight.

[Steve W]

Did some preliminary numbers for W&B. With putting the C of G of the floats on the plane’s empty C of G at an empty number of 1511# at 11.16” AOD. Lightly loaded forward C of G was 11.95 AOD. Full fuel, 200# pilot and 200# Px, gross weight at 2200#, 16.62AOD. So for most flights the C of G will be floating around the mid point most of the time.

[On Patrol]

Hi Steve,
The Montana numbers I have came in at 365#. I am not sure if that included the hydraulic unit. I need to look. The Hydraulic unit was located behind the baggage compartment. In working with a friend Peter Annis we did lengthen the wing by 18" and beef up the spar thickness so that we could have lift to offset the weight increase over gear.
Thanks for your info
John

[Steve W]

Hi to those still interested in going the amphib way on their Patrols.
I amended my previous numbers as I fudged a few before double checking what I had written down.
Medium length story, I was able to complete the installation before heading out to work in May and had all required inspection/paperwork in place to fall on some off time through the summer. After the inspection in early June, I was given a flight authority which had to accumulate 5 trouble free hours and restricted to several nearby lakes for the duration. In addition to that, a climb test was needed to verify performance with the gross weight increase to 2200 lbs.
Between work and the smoke experienced in Alberta this summer, I didn’t finish the hours until late September.
Performance was quite impressive with an approximate cruise of 115 mph at 23.5 squared down from 135-140 on small wheels at the same setting at gross weight. The water take off was also good and was overall pleased with what I was experiencing. The 2100 Whip floats have a very small “sweet spot” for acceleration and found 3.7 degrees between the underside of the wings and top of the floats allowed the plane to fly itself off. All of the test flying was done on glassy water.
Mounting the empty C of G of the plane on the center of mass of the floats worked for me.
Just some pics of KHB. A friend wanted to be on the water for the first landing and shot some pictures.
One pic of my summer office

[rodsmith]

Sounds like it works out great, terrific to see another Bearhawk on floats. Was my original plan when I started my project in Alaska. Now live in a state (Colorado) with only 1 legal float plane lake.

[Chris In Milwaukee]

I have to admit I'm drooling a little over here and there may even be a small tear in my eye.

[Steve W]

That’s how I felt when I left Newfoundland in 1996. More than one tear in my eyes for sure. I knew I was leaving something I had a great passion for, for a set of wheels!
Persevere! Gota keep the end goal in sight at all times.

[Steve W]

Rod, I am in a similar position here in Alberta. I spent 20 years in Newfoundland and was a float plane paradise. Was always my dream to have a plane out in front of a cabin on some lake. Family commitments over the years has me planted here in prairie county so amphibs was the only solution to enjoy some puddle jumping. Working on floats for the summers sense I retired on 07’ took care of most of my wanting to be on the water. I turn 70 soon so was the last summer slugging it out in an Otter just to get some fun on floats. Hope to enjoy some float flyin next summer here in the north.