Lowering the push-pull engine and prop controls below the panel

[Zzz]

A friend here whose Bearhawk is the only one I've actually flown in, mounted his throttle/prop/mixture controls below the panel crossbar. His argument is that they are a little more ergonomic at that position. I'd have to agree-- it's nice to keep your forearm on your tight while working the throttle. However, I haven't tested my body position with my seat foam in.

The only downside is that with that below the crossbar, that area is not as clear and clean. You can bump your knee into it. Or stab your knee if you nose over.

I'm cutting a new panel soon, and I'm curious if anyone else has done this, because it would be easy to just incorporate the extension into the template.



Here's an example. I think Eric Newton may have done something similar with his Bearhawk too.

[marcusofcotton]

Someone had said that it was great to put them on a separate plate in that position so that when they worked on the panel they didn't have to fuss with the cables. Seems like a good line of thought to me, even though a slight bit more work and weight initially.

Mark J

[kestrel]

When I pay attention to it on the ground, the higher position seems a little to high and angled up a little too much. When busy flying, I don't notice it at all. I still wonder if lowered like you indicate would be nice to free up a little panel space. I don't know if the lower position is good, but that's my experience with the "normal" location.

[Battson]

I agree with these remarks:

When I pay attention to it on the ground, the higher position seems a little to high and angled up a little too much. When busy flying, I don't notice it at all.

[corefile]

Thanks for posting the RV12 panel Zzz, that really shows the position well. It would seem in that picture, that if you are worried about hitting you knee on that small drop down (what is that 2 - 2 1/2 inches?) then you are either about 6'10" or you have your seat adjust WAAAYYY to far forward. But then again I have never sat in a bearhawk, but since I'm planning on building one I hope its not that crowded. Also speaking of a separate plate, I really like how they have the fuses and rocker switches on a detachable plate, lends its self to changes and all you would need to do is fabricate a new plate instead of a whole section of your panel or in the case of my 182 - holes were things used to be. I'll be using that idea in the future for sure, and I'll wait for the pirep from Zzz about the engine and prop controls.

[whee]

The seat in the BH I was flying was mounted ~1" higher than the QB kit seats. In that plane my knees hit the cross tube below the panel. Installing the engine controls below the panel would not have worked for me in that plane. I plan to explore that option because the extra panel space could be nice. I don't think it will work for me but it is worth looking into.

[Zzz]

I'm pretty average height at 6' 1" and with the seat adjusted to about 2/3s back (final 1/3 of aftward adjustment) and no seat foam, I'm feeling that the lower controls feel nicer because my forearm rests on my thigh. I'll have finished seats with foam and my rudder cables hooked up prior to making a final decision.

Foam height I think is a big factor for making the higher mounted controls feel right. I won't have much on my panel so I'm not trying to free up space, just concerned about ergonomics.

If having your knees constricted and not being able to spread your legs in comfort is a result of the dropped controls, it's probably not worth it.

[Collin Campbell]

This is what I did. Has worked well with no problems.
​Collin, (N370CC)

[marcusofcotton]

Nice Collin, what material and thickness did you use?

[Collin Campbell]

I used the same material as I used on the panel itself. .063 2024-T3 AL as I recall. Riveted the two together with flush rivets (-4's), flush on top to avoid inteference with the cross tube of the fuselage.

[marcusofcotton]

Thanks for the details Collin. I'm thinking of going with easily removable fasteners to separate them without undoing everything.

Mark J

[Battson]

I put mine in the usual spot - I like the idea of the controls being lower for extra panel space.

Here are my observations:

You put a lot of load on the controls when you use them, mostly the throttle, and especially in turbulence. You will want a welded steel plate to support them. You don't want them wobbling around.

You might be a great fit, but your passengers may be taller. My brother is 6'5" and the controls get in the way of his knees - seat hard back. Leaning hard means I need his foot down under the pedals, so he doesn't obstruct the red knob. On an unrelated note, with full flaps the Johnson bar keeps his legs somewhat trapped, and if I needed full aileron for some reason it would be impossible with his knee in the way.

I agree with Tyson's comments about the angles, but it's definitely a non issue in flight, and you get to appreciate the ergonomics with a little angle towards the pilot (whereas the Cessna ones come straight back). Especially when you are seat hard forward trying to see over the nose at 38kts on short-short finals to some beach with a big dead log on your blindside. The angle makes it just a little easier for the wrist to stay lined up as you're craning forward over the panel.

[whee]

You might be a great fit, but your passengers may be taller. My brother is 6'5" and the controls get in the way of his knees - seat hard back. Leaning hard means I need his foot down under the pedals, so he doesn't obstruct the red knob. On an unrelated note, with full flaps the Johnson bar keeps his legs somewhat trapped, and if I needed full aileron for some reason it would be impossible with his knee in the way.

I experienced the same thing but it was my own leg stuck between the flap handle and the stick on a crosswind approach. I forgot about that.

This also reminds me of another time I was landing but in a left cross wind. With the stick to the left I couldn't reach the left pedal. Made for a rather sporty landing.

[mswain]

I'm not sure who this builder is, but I came across his video on youtube. He uses a power cluster similar to some Piper's I've seen.


There is a still photo at 4:36 in the video: https://youtu.be/vqkFAJYzJ6k

[rv8bldr]

I'm not sure who this builder is, but I came across his video on youtube. He uses a power cluster similar to some Piper's I've seen.


There is a still photo at 4:36 in the video: https://youtu.be/vqkFAJYzJ6k

That's the Sorenson Bearhawk. There was a story on it in Sport Aviation a few years ago. Mark has a gallery page for them on the Bearhawk Aircraft web site.

http://bearhawkaircraft.com/BHgallery/index.php?v=list&i=0&p=Sorensen

[Zzz]

Battson I'm unclear on which route you went based on your post. You say "usual" spot but lowering the controls is going off the reservation for our kits.

I need to go fly with Jared to see how his feels.

[Battson]

Yeah I didn't lower my controls. That's what I meant by "usual", probably not the best word...

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps733fb4a5.jpg