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  • Heavy Wing...need help on how to proceed.

    Hi,
    I did my 1st flight last weekend on my 4-place and noticed a heavy wing problem (left wing). Did a second flight today, using an un-balanced fuel condition (15 gal more in the right wing), heaviness didn’t noticeably change.

    I want to proceed with the washer trick under the aileron attach weldments.

    Problem is, l’m reading conflicting recommendation on how to proceed.
    Mark recommends to place the washer under the UPPER leg (heavy side) and Bob says under the BOTTOM leg .
    I’ve copied and paste exact wording from both sources. Bob’s recommendation is from 2006 q4 beartrack. Mark is from a forum reply, May 2014.



    Mark Goldberg recommendation:
    Placing 1/8" washers between the aileron attach weldments and the rear spar where it is bolted - this is what you would do on the three UPPER "legs" of the weldments. Two "legs" on the weldment where the pushrod comes out and the one on the outboard weldment. This in effect lowers the aileron a little helping "lift" the heavy wing slightly. If that isn't enough, then you can place the same 1/8" washers under the lower attach points of the weldment for the aileron on the "light" wing.

    Beartrack 2006 Q4:
    Bob recommendation: If your plane has a heavy wing in its initial flights, after checking the flaps are inline on both sides, and you notice that when flying hands off one aileron is high and one low. A correction should be made by putting a AN970-3 washer (wide area washer) – drilled out to 1/4” – under the bottom of the inboard and outboard aileron hinge mounts on the HEAVY WING SIDE. This effectively lifts the aileron on that side. Bob
    You do not have permission to view this gallery.
    This gallery has 2 photos.

  • #2
    First, Congratulations on your completion and first flights! Huge acomplisnment!

    There is a bit of conflict in those instructions.
    I would reserve working with the washer solution until a little further down the road when some more data and behaviors are observed.

    How heavy is heavy? Is it unsafe to fly or just troublesome irritation?
    Why do you express the situation as wing is heavy
    rather than one side is light?

    There is a lot going on in the first flights and not all the
    observations sort out as correct.

    recommend that the push rod on the heavy wing be turned out 1 at the aileron.

    Examine the aileron slot slot above the aileron at the wing and the fit of the aileron to the wing at the bottom leading edge. Are the right and left relationships the same?

    then fly and note change?
    Try 1 and 2 notches of flaps at about 80 mph.
    does the feel or heavy ness change?
    can you pick up the heavy wing with application of opposite rudder? If you hold the wings level at 80 mph
    and release the rudder pedals what yaw does the nose display?

    wings level, ball centered, what are the ailerons position
    in flight?

    how is the pitch? Are you ballasted to near mid CG?
    at 80 trimmed for as much hands off as possible
    what happens if you slowly pitch nose down to 90
    and release forward pressure? Nose pitch up or continue to tuck down?

    lot of questions, lot of observations, proceed slowly, small reasoned changes otherwise you will chase your
    tail and undo the just done.

    the alignment and rigging is critical as a1/16 thick washer will move the hinge point about 3/32.
    Raising the hingepoint up, shim on the bottom should lower light wing and overall lighten the ailerons feel.
    Raising the hingepoint, reduces the “camber “ of the wing therefore reduces the lift on the light wing. ie the light wing comes down....

    hope this helps

    Kevin
    #272


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    • #3
      I have always wondered with this method, doesn't this create a bending force in the bolts, which would be transferred to the spar?

      Comment


      • #4
        My right wing was heavy at first. Looking at the the leading edges of the horizontal stabs, one was significantly higher than the other. Adjusting those made a difference and the right wing went from being very heavy to being slightly heavy. I've got 80 hours on the Patrol now and haven't bothered to mess with it anymore, so obviously its not all that bad.

        Today while I was waiting for the oil to drain, I decided to adjust the right flap. I had been thinking that it wouldn't work because I was thinking that when the flap is up its leading edge is basically resting against the rear spar of the wing. I got to thinking that that isn't the case. The flap linkage (just forward of the flap) is against a stop when the flaps are up. (The plans call for padding around the tubing where it contacts. I used rubber hose) With that in mind I adjusted (lengthened) the rod end bearing at the right flap to lower it when the flaps are up. Hopefully I'll get to fly it for a few minutes tomorrow to see if it made a difference.
        Rollie VanDorn
        Findlay, OH
        Patrol Quick Build

        Comment


        • Bcone1381
          Bcone1381 commented
          Editing a comment
          80 hours already!! Awesome!

      • #5
        I corrected my heavy right wing on the Maule the same way. A quick tweak on the flap pushrod was the quickest and easiest way to fix it. Perhaps not the most efficient, but very effective given how much flap I have (Bearhawk, too).
        ​Christopher Owens, EAA #808438
        Project "Expedition"
        Bearhawk 4-Place Scratch Built, Plans #991
        Bearhawk Patrol Scratch Built, Plans #P313
        Germantown, Wisconsin, USA

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        • #6
          Adjusting the rod end bearing push rod seems to be working. I can't say for sure because I have been flying so infrequently lately that I got it backwards on which wing was "heavy". I lowered the right flap and today I got to test it out and as soon as I got leveled off I noticed that the it wants to roll left. Then I realized that that's what it has always done and that I have been flying with my left hand pushing the stick to the right. Now its worse so I think my flap adjustment had the effect I was going for. Tomorrow I'll adjust the right flap back to where it was and adjust the left flap down a bit. I only went a turn and a half on the rod end bearing and I'm pretty sure it made a difference. My wife thought it took more force than before to keep it wings level, so I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track, just maybe going the wrong way.
          Rollie VanDorn
          Findlay, OH
          Patrol Quick Build

          Comment


          • #7
            I am working on correcting a heavy wing and want to make sure I have this right. Mark’s instructions are the ones that are correct, right? Washers go under the top legs of the hinge mounts of the heavy wing. Also, Bob recommends a -3 (3/16”) washer drilled out for the 1/4” bolt. Mark says to use a 1/8” washer but I’m not exactly sure what he means. Is that an 1/8” thick washer?

            Thanks for the help.
            Scratch Built 4-place Bearhawk. Continental IO-360, 88" C203 McCauley prop.

            Comment


            • #8
              Yes, washer goes on the top bolts of the heavy wing. I used a drilled out washer (1/16” thick). Maybe you have done this already but it’s worth mentioning,, check your tail again first. If one of your horizontal stabs is out the slightest bit, it will effect everything. Example, if your left wing is low,, you may have a low right horizontal stab and will take slight left rudder to Center the ball. I ended up using a transit (builders level) to Zero everything to fine tune my tail.

              Comment


              • #9
                Hi Whee,
                i’ve tried the washer trick under the top bolts (heavy wing side),and I didn’t get appreciable results.
                I decided to remove the washer and go with a Gurney flap under the light wing.
                You don’t need much, in my case, I started with a 6” strip, but that was waaaay too much. I trimmed it down to 2.5” and it works just fine. Very easy to try. Just tape it down, and when you’re satisfied, rivet it in place.
                Mike
                C001DE66-680D-4A48-8EDB-1044CAB69240.jpeg

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                • #10
                  I had a chat with Bob today and am going to try the washer trick. The wing that is light stalls first so I’m going to put the washers on that side.
                  Scratch Built 4-place Bearhawk. Continental IO-360, 88" C203 McCauley prop.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    whee did the washer trick, do the trick?

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Battson View Post
                      whee did the washer trick, do the trick?
                      It’s been a while… I recall that the washers helped. The plane stalled both wings at the same time and heavy wing went away, at least mostly.

                      The reason I can’t remember for sure is my cables have stretched, both the aileron and flap cables, so I’m dealing with a heavy wing. At this point I’m not sure what is causing the heavy wing and if the washers just masked the actual issue. I’ll be re-rigging the entire plane and checking the tail-plane for straightness.
                      Scratch Built 4-place Bearhawk. Continental IO-360, 88" C203 McCauley prop.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Whee (Jon?) is onto a critical point when dealing with a heavy LEFT wing issue that it took me way too long to learn. I have been making numerous adjustments to rod ends, flaps, etc to try to resolve the heavy left wing. I was not seeing any significant results from my adjustments. It was a quite a bit of chasing my tail.

                        I had just about reached a point of total rework- leveling, checking, adjusting , re-rigging, washers, etc. My first step in that plan was to check cable tension. I tightened the right wing turnbuckle 3 turns and went for a flight. Heavy left wing is almost nonexistent now in cruise. I need to make a couple of more test but may need a little tweak on my rudder trim tab to be perfect.

                        It is obvious now, but I wasn't seeing a change in aileron to wingtip reference position in cruise that should have resulted from my rod end adjustments. I attribute this to stretched control cable and improper tension.

                        just my experience and opinion. Hope helpful.
                        Thanks too much,
                        John Bickham

                        Los Lunas, NM Mid Valley Airpark E98
                        BH Plans #1117
                        Avipro wings/Scratch
                        http://www.mykitlog.com/users/index....er&project=882

                        Comment


                        • Bcone1381
                          Bcone1381 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I'm glad that worked. A nice flying well rigged ship is a blessing.....yet I fail to understand the physics why it worked.

                      • #14
                        This is very interesting. My right aileron sits higher than the left aileron, and the stick sits slightly to the right also. It flies hands off like this quite happily.
                        I believe this indicates a heavy left wing. I've tried adjusting the flaps and this made a small difference but I didn't consider adjusting the aileron turn buckle.

                        Incidentally, my right elevator is a degree of two higher AOA than the left and so I had attributed the aileron issue as being caused by this. The elevator bellcranks are aligned perfectly, but not the elevators themselves. I've looked at ways to resolve this, and it can be done, but not easily.
                        Nev Bailey
                        Christchurch, NZ
                        Builders-log
                        YouTube

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by John Bickham View Post
                          Whee (Jon?) is onto a critical point when dealing with a heavy LEFT wing issue that it took me way too long to learn. I have been making numerous adjustments to rod ends, flaps, etc to try to resolve the heavy left wing. I was not seeing any significant results from my adjustments. It was a quite a bit of chasing my tail.

                          I had just about reached a point of total rework- leveling, checking, adjusting , re-rigging, washers, etc. My first step in that plan was to check cable tension. I tightened the right wing turnbuckle 3 turns and went for a flight. Heavy left wing is almost nonexistent now in cruise. I need to make a couple of more test but may need a little tweak on my rudder trim tab to be perfect.

                          It is obvious now, but I wasn't seeing a change in aileron to wingtip reference position in cruise that should have resulted from my rod end adjustments. I attribute this to stretched control cable and improper tension.

                          just my experience and opinion. Hope helpful.
                          This has been my experience too, cable tension being too high (30lbs or greater on primary for ailerons) masks other issues and prevents proper rigging.

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