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December 2018 Manual Update, Request for Input

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  • #16
    I just looked at some of the updated stuff. I download the manuals 8-10 months ago and have been using them. The new "map" does have some bear tracks stuff attached. Nice.


    • #17
      I also want to thank Jared for putting all the work into the newsletter, the tips and the great schematic/flow-chart. Like Brooks, I'd like to get one hung up in the shop to scribble on and hang sticky notes from, etc. (Actually, a 24"x36" monitor would be nice too, then could also look at the forums, and put in my Aircraft Spruce order as well!)

      Others have mentioned the rather scattered approach some of us originally (pre-flow-chart) used to eat this elephant. We may not have all built an RV or have a local tech resource or other experts to ask. I usually spend a good portion of my time mapping out a strategy based on the original manual, Russ Erbes' CD, the forums and random web sites (that's once I have actually figured out the piece I am now going to work on - last thing I want to do is have to back out of a step to get to a step I should have done before.) Having got the kit not long after the Model A -> B transition didn't help, as there were are few things still a bit in flux... Fun!

      I don't really mind the digging around - when I'm working on the plane I'll scribble questions I have, and go rooting later at night. If all else fails I give a call to Mark and he almost always points me in the right direction - the only downside is that by then I've already expended a few evenings of "learning". And being able to search the forums is HUGE - many thanks to all you folks that post your good ideas (and mistakes too :-) there! Someday maybe we'll be able to integrate the wealth of knowledge ofbthe forum into the "footnotes" of the manual as well.

      Again, thanks Jared - I'll be sending updates with items I recently found that may help to polish this gem of a manual up.

      Eric Peterson
      4-Place QB
      Camarillo, CA


      • svyolo
        svyolo commented
        Editing a comment
        I am pretty disorganized - I haven't balanced a checkbook since REO Speedwagon was popular. But I bought a very cheap Android tablet at Costco and that is my one stop shopping for pictures/reference material etc. It is also the source of my build log. Works great.

      • grog
        grog commented
        Editing a comment
        Agreed. I have a similar laptop that's dedicated to this project - and I try to put copies of stuff out on Google Drive just in case it gets lost/dropped. It's convenient to be able to bring it to the coffee shop and plan out the next week's work. Jared's map really helps to "Gantt chart" things and order my thoughts...
        My build log is just a plain doc with attached pictures and text - I was worried about the web-based build loggers (say, if the company decided to go out of business, but that's another topic...)

    • #18
      Along the lines of this topic - I would like to chime in here and ask for help from all of you to assist Jared in this difficult task. If you think you see an area of the manual that could use more detail - PLEASE feel free to help Jared whip the new manual into shape. Write something up and submit it to Jared with pics. It will be reviewed by Jared, me, and later Bob to make sure it conforms with what Bob wants. Bob is the last voice on what goes into the manual.

      A more step by step manual would be very helpful in sales. I always tell perspective builders that the build of one of our kits will be more difficult than some other kits, but when done they will end up with the best flying airplane. At Vans they have tried to make manuals that allow ANYONE with zero knowledge or talent to build an airplane. Bob does not think like that and expects more of builders to be able to solve problems and make decisions. Making the manual more step by step would be helpful.

      Now I would like to tell a little story. When I built my RV8 there were no QB kits available for it. We drilled all the holes in the wing skins etc. The manual was very good. A neighbor who flew for SW was a frequent visitor to my shop. After flying the RV8 with me, a year or so later he bought an RV8 QB kit. When I saw him next at OSH (after he moved out of state) - all he could do was complain about the Vans build manual. I was incredulous that he was going on and on about how poor the Vans build manual was. Because I knew it was the most complete/detailed manual around.

      The point of telling that story is that it is mission impossible to make EVERYONE happy. But with your help, we can certainly make the kits easier to build out. Thanks in advance for any assistance provided. Mark


      • #19
        Here's something for you Jared:

        The Bravo wings have a different configuration and the aux fuel tank goes in the 4th bay rather than the third. This changes the way you need to configure the plumbing. Here's what I did....

        - remove the centre rib stiffener on the inboard rib and trim the bottom section. Make a 032 doubler to fit over the space. This is where you need to make the exit hole for the fuel line. Replace the shorter stiffene.
        - make a 063 doubler plate to take the pump and fit it on the next rib stiffener aft. I drilled out the centre 3 rivets and then made extra rivet holes.
        - use a 45 nipple on the exit from the pump and route the piping under the aileron bracket and the fuel line along the bottom aft of the ribs
        Last edited by PaulSA; 12-27-2018, 01:53 PM.


        • jaredyates
          jaredyates commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks Paul, I have added your photo and notes to the aux tanks page.

      • #20
        Thanks Paul. Your installation looks good. I would suggest that everyone email Jared privately with input for the manual rather than posting here on the forum.Mark


        • #21
          Originally posted by jaredyates View Post
          If you see a section where steps are missing, let me know which section it is and which steps are missing and we'll add the detail. It's difficult in retrospect to fill in the gaps that are obvious to someone trying to complete the task, especially for the first time. This is where the comments can be handy, but email to me works as well. I'm all for copying a good format, point me to the ones you like the best. If you can make it specific and actionable, I'll take specific action.
          Where to begin!

          The Vans manuals are probably the best starting point. Aim high.

          None of the manual was numbered step-wise when I used it, maybe that has been added since. There are probably about ~100 systems and ~10,000 steps required in round numbers.

          Start by calling out all the bolts by AN number and length which are required to join each and every part together.

          I know the statement "Bearhawk builds are each so different that a single manual cannot cover them" has been bandied around a lot; however the core aircraft should have a single standard design in detail which is described by a manual. Such as calling out the fuel system with all hardware, tube sizes, filters, fixtures, where anti-chaffing material is to be furnished, all defined. Builders can then deviate from that design at their own expense and risk.

          In my view it is important to issue small improvements to the manual in tiny little stages, publishing as often as possible, so progress can be shared with the community and feedback received before problems become widespread. A big-bang "version 2.0" manual would be a high risk way of doing it.

          I would be keen to contribute in my spare time. Doing a manual PAGE on "Installing a Cargo Door", maybe 30 steps, would be a nice thing to start and finish in an evening. Trying to re-write the manual called "Fuselage part 1" would be a nightmare, wrong way to eat an elephant.
          Last edited by Battson; 01-06-2019, 08:33 PM.


          • Mark Goldberg
            Mark Goldberg commented
            Editing a comment
            Jonathan, your participation on the revisions to the manual would be great. On the area you mention - there is one difference in the cargo door area from when you built your kit. The formers around the door are aluminum now and pop riveted to tabs with SS pops. I think maybe only the bottom former (door sill) of the cargo doors might still be steel and welded in place. Mark