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**Ed Welfred** · 05-09-2016, 09:43 AM

If the problem is largely altitude perhaps supercharging or turbocharging may be the preferred route.

**Baloo** · 05-09-2016, 10:33 AM

The problem isn't largely altitude it is that I would like to bolt on more power onto my aircraft to better pair its power output with the type of flying that I enjoy... To be honest, I'm starting to regret even asking for tips on how to make the swap go more smoothly all I was looking for was recommendations on parts and modifications necessary to have on hand to minimize downtime when the time comes to change engines. I also thought that it would become a good resource for others that might consider the same at some point.

Once again I am not saying here that I NEED to change engines I WANT to change engines just like I don't NEED an airplane to begin with.

I just had a look at those Earth-X Batteries that is pretty impressive that they can shed 10lbs compared to the Odyssey.

**whee** · 05-09-2016, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Baloo

To be honest, I'm starting to regret even asking for tips on how to make the swap go more smoothly

I feel your pain. Sometimes you have to wade through a bunch of crap to find one little gold nugget and sometimes the question isn't even worth asking.

Note about your prop: When I was looking it seemed that the 80" with the damper was the desired combo for the o360 but it was somewhat expensive to obtain. Might be worth selling it and the damper to someone else. I don't think you'll be happy with a 80" prop.

Also, I know the McCauley C214 in 82" is approved on some O540s. It is the prop used on the C182RG. The blades and manufactured at 90" long and cut down for each application. Might be worth seeing if that prop is approved with your engine in longer lengths. I've read that back in the old days the Anchorage FSDO would field approve same model props that were up to 4" longer than the factory approved prop. I think a 86" C214 could be a really nice prop on a BH but I'm a chicken and don't know enough about prop dynamics to start messing about with untested combinations.

**Battson** · 05-09-2016, 05:51 PM

I agree with the above, comments on keeping the O-360 don't help......... He already ordered the -540 engine - that ship has sailed!

Ryan,

I would suggest a remote mounted oil filter, either low on the firewall, or with easy access from the cowl door. My 2c is it makes a difference every 50hr check.

You are going to need to order the oil cooler separately, they can have a long back-order time
You also want the oil cooler mounting kit from Vans - the 12-row cooler's are too big to mount on the baffles without stressing the baffles. Mine cracked.
Moreover, the Vans baffle kit doesn't come with enough gauze mesh to screen off the oil cooler tube. You want that, to keep straw, birds-nests, etc out of the cooler tube.

I trust you will be able to reuse the oil temp / oil pressure / MAP sensors from your current install. Do you need different braided hoses to make it work with the -540?

Naturally I assume you want multi-point EGT and CHT? In which case you need extra probes and maybe a new wiring harness and gauge? Remembering to get the right type-K or J thermocouple wire for those probes.

Think about installing a CAT gauge, a simple safety device. I would not build a carb engine without one in our climes...

Will you need a longer governor control cable - probably? Will you be selling the mounting bracket with your outgoing engine?

What about the throttle and mixture controls - are they long enough?

Have you ordered a carb box, and a carb heat system (scat tube, the heat muff that comes with the exhaust, valve if applicable, and the control cable?)

Will you be selling your alternator with the engine? A light / new Planepower one would be nice...
You will probably need a new length of heavy duty cable to reach the alternator, either way.

If you don't already have one, look at the lightweight Skytech starter. Saves a tonne of weight.
You will probably need a new length of heavy duty cable to reach the starter-motor, either way. You will need to replace the whole thing, joints = resistance. Remember the demand for starting power is a LOT higher with the -540. If you have a 12V system, then you want to think about the gauge of that cable. If it's already on the small side, then go up a gauge.

Do you want blast air (forced cooling from inside the engine baffles) on your alternator or mags? If so, do you have the parts you need to install that?

Note that Bob sometimes supplies resistorless massive electrode spark plugs unless you ask for different - you don't want those resistorless ones...
You will also want to replace the hose clips on the oil return lines with hose clamps, those spring-clips leak after a few hundred hours.

Will the oil-filler cap be in the same place?? I doubt it, so depending on your cowling, you might need a new top cowl.

What metal will you need to change the bottom cowl to suit the carb-box? Do you need a different air filter, I think so?

Will your existing P-leads fit the new mags? If you need to install new end-fittings, be sure to get the stuff you need to ground the shielding properly. Otherwise radio interference is abound.

That is about all I can think of...

**Wes Ragle** · 05-09-2016, 06:10 PM

Like Jonathan said, an alternator swap can help.

For the alternator I selected the B & C BC462-H (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/...nators-462.php). If you have the vacuum pad available, and if 35 amp output is enough, you can save some weight as well as moving that weight aft. By the way, I called up B & C and was assured that this alternator would not overstress the internal vaccume drive parts.

Best of Luck,

Wes (temporarily sidetracked but back at it soon)

**Baloo** · 05-09-2016, 07:07 PM

Wow! Battson, Thanks for taking the time! That is exactly the kind of HELPFULL post I was looking for. Ill try and knock off these items one by one and when I get to the airport next I'll pull the cowling and take some photos and post them for reference.

One of the benefits that I have is that there is another 4 Place with an O-540 at a nearby airport only 5nm away. The plan is to at some point park them side by side undress them and make a list and start fabricating items that need to be made so that the install can go as quickly as possible.

Oil Cooler: My current set up has the larger oil cooler already mounted to the lower right firewall, I will post pictures and you can let me know if this seems adequate.

Sensors: I should be able to re-use all the sensors and will have to order 2 more of each the EGT and CHT probes. On your advice I will also add a Carb Temp Probe

Control Cables: When I have to 2 planes side by side I'll be able to more accurately measure control cable length. Given that the back of the 540 will sit closer to the firewall I'm assuming that if anything my control cables will need to be cut down to length.

Carb Heat Box: I will need to order one and the associated cable and ducting. This will also require a modification to the air scoop on the underside of my cowl to accommodate the bracket filter. (Photos to follow)

Alternator & Govenor: My current set up has both the Alternator and Governor bolted on to pads on the back of the io-360. Can these be reused and modified for the 540. I realize that they will most likely need to be moved to the front. The governor is a PCU5000 and the alternator is B&C.

Starter: Included with the engine from Bob

Spark Plugs: I`ll follow up with Bob

Oil Filler Cap: My top cowl is piano hinged the full length on both sides with only the centre 4 inches remaining stationary. I should be good unless the oil filler is top dead centre.

P-Leads: The engine comes with the OH Bendix Mags. Im assuming that the P-Leads will be in place but that is something that I will follow up on.

Fuel Priming: I currently have an electric fuel pump for the io engine. I was thinking of leaving it in place as my priming source for the 540 unless the concensus is that a pump primer would be better suited for the task.

As I'm sure you can tell I am not a builder and this is my first journey into uncertified aircraft. I am fortunate to be surrounded by experienced builders both here and at my home field.

Battson you make a lot of reference to selling brackets etc with the ``old`` (290hr) engine. May I ask the significance of these query's for my own learning.

Thanks for the guidance and I appreciate anything else that anyone might have to add.

**Baloo** · 05-09-2016, 09:48 PM

Battson,

Fair comments and thanks for clarifying that I need to ask for what I want. While Bob strongly advised going carbureted vs. Injected perhaps injection is $1900 well spent considering that I'll be able to use the existing infrastructure of my injected 360 without having to modify my bottom cowl for a carb box or my panel for carb heat and primer this will be worth the $$.

I will give Bob a shout tomorrow and discuss having a vacuum pad set up on the rear case to accommodate my existing alternator another place where the extra $$ will be offset by not having to buy a new alternator.

When I speak with him what spark plugs should I specify for my order.

I assume that a Bob IO-540 will have the fuel injection lines run to the cylinders...

Furthermore, I'll harvest as much as I can from the original 360, brackets etc....

**jaredyates** · 05-09-2016, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by Baloo View Post

To be honest, I'm starting to regret even asking for tips on how to make the swap go more smoothly all I was looking for was recommendations on parts and modifications necessary to have on hand to minimize downtime when the time comes to change engines..

I don't know if you meant for it to come across as some have taken it, but with this approach it looks like you are well on your way to alienating some very valuable resources. This seems tactically unwise to me, but your mileage may vary as they say. If in the future you post a question that seems to indicate that you are not on the optimal path, does this approach make it more or less likely that someone is going to speak up about it? Wouldn't you want them to? I suppose it is the nature of asking for advice generally, and especially when the advice is free, that sometimes the answers may not match your expectations.

The ship is far from sailed... it's not that you have a new engine on hand, but rather just your name written box in a calendar on Bob's wall. He writes those orders in pencil.

To give an answer that relates more directly to your question, keep in mind that several of your controls and connections will be shorter on the new engine, since the back of the engine is so much closer to the firewall. This will be good on things that can easily be shortened, like wires and bowden cables, and may be an issue on controls that can't be shortened, like the ones with threaded ends.
I made up the p-leads for our Bendix mags, and it was not a problem. I did have to source some parts for the mag end, with Bob's help. You'll likely need to rig up or purchase some terminals to use during the mag timing, like these: https://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/d...RODUCT_ID=8765 Note that they have more than one type of terminal, depending on your actual mag type.
Lots of 540 operators add louvers to increase the airflow out of the cowl, so you might be on the lookout for those while you wait, in case a good deal comes along. It sounds like minimizing down time is a priority, but I'd say it's probably best to temper your expectations about how long the swap is going to take. For example, the RV baffle kit is not a bolt-on and go kind of thing. I probably had 100 hours of fabrication in the baffles alone, but then it was my first time doing it.

**Baloo** · 05-10-2016, 12:05 AM

Jared,
My intention was not to alienate. I guess there was some misunderstanding in the original post in that I have made the personal decision to go ahead with the engine swap for operational reasons specific to the flying that I enjoy. While the proverbial ship hasnt arrived (engine in hand) it has sailed be it in pencil or fat sharpie marker.

The primary intention of my original post was to get advice on completing the swap which I know will take a month or two of downtime to complete. Luckily I have some very knowledgeable people around here to help. I wasn't really looking for input on whether or not to go ahead with it but given the nature of forums I should not have been surprised that it went that way. Luckily several other posters saw the initial intent of the post and steered the ship back on course.

The secondary purpose of the post was to apologize to Gavin. I sent him an over reaching accusatory email when my frustration with aircraft woes got the best of me. I emailed an apology to him privately but never got a response (probably what I deserve). Since he is a respected member of this community and I am not too prooud to admit my wrong doings publicly I figured it would be a good venue to display some humility.

I appreciate all the advice and pointers. I need them more than anyone because unlike most of you I am not a skilled builder and this is my first dip in the experimental aircraft pool and boy is there a lot to learn!

I apologize to those that feel that I have acted in an alienating fashion and look forward to absorbing what I can form your experiences in building, maintaining and modifying this aircraft that we all love.

**Gavin Chester** · 05-11-2016, 12:58 AM

Baloo, as you have chosen this path I wish for you to succeed.
Here is my two cents.
Use the plans and build your self a plywood fire wall complete with flange.
The engine crank flange position is as per planes so the 540 should fit in the existing cowl.
The existing fuel system to the firewall is good for the 540.
Beg, borrow a run out 540 engine of the same model.
Buy the engine mount etc.
Buy the baffle kit.
Buy the air box.
Buy the exhaust.
Screw the fire wall ,engine mount ,engine etc to your hanger wall.
Use the existing cowl as needed when needed and build away.
As you build and design think what will happen if this fails , are there multiple failure points required for complete failure?
When you get frustrated put the cowl back on the BearHawk and go fly.
The engine from Bob will come soon enough.
When you have every thing ready to bolt on you will still be a several months from flying with the new engine, so the engine delivery and winter ( poor flying ) should work for you.
You will need to contact MDRA as going from 4 cylinder to six will require a inspection and new 25 hr test period complete with paper work !!
At any point in this process you change your mind, you will have a firewall forward you can sell in the BearHawk community.
Gavin

**Baloo** · 05-11-2016, 09:11 AM

Gavin,

Thank you very much for taking the time and for your support despite me being a complete dick last week.

After giving it some more thought I emailed Bob yesterday and opted to go with an IO-540. I figured that the added cost would be offset by not having to find/incorporate a carb box, primer, and I wouldn't have to make any cowl modifications not to mention Ill be able to use the existing plumbing and wiring that you had already installed for the injected 360.

Thanks for the above advise, are you suggesting that I will need to build a new firewall and new cowling? Or is the mock up plywood firewall with flange just to enable me to plan cable routings etc? I'm hoping to use as much of what is on the existing firewall as is in terms of pumps, pressure senders, electrical etc....

I called MDRA this morning and they said that there is no inspection, paperwork or flight test period required as it has already been signed off as airworthy and has a certificate. They just advised that I let TC know so that they can update the register database.

I know that this will be a process and wont go quickly and quite frankly I'm looking forward to the learning aspect of it and at the end I will have been able to improve and aircraft that is already damn near perfect thanks to you. This should make us both happy as FBH will reach her full potential.

If you need a 4cyl for your patrol you know where to find one

Thanks Again,
R

**Gavin Chester** · 05-12-2016, 12:37 AM

You should not have to change any thing on the firewall. The mock up is to allow you to find all the little glitches that will hold you up. Just the routing of the control cables , sizing, ordering , shipping will take several weeks.You should contact MGL and get the standard six cylinder screen layout emailed for the units. The egt and cht probes are MGL.
I have attached a link that may or may not work, But go to section 549.23 on trans port Canada web site.for their view on modification.
This is one of the things that can take months to sort out to be legal. And just the thing insurance companies can refuse payout on should something go wrong.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part5-standards-549-sub-a-1785.htm#549.23

**Baloo** · 01-07-2017, 06:25 AM

So back in April I put my small deposit on a Bob IO-540 which is slated for delivery some time in April/May. As that time gets closer the whole process is feeling more and more daunting. The other day I caught wind of an engine that is available locally. It is an IO-540-W1A5 is is from a 235hp Maule. What I have been told is that by turning up the RPM from 2400 to 2700 and with slightly higher compression pistons that it should put out close to 260hp.

The price on the 2 engines is similar. However there is enough difference in price due to the exchange rate and shipping that the local engine would allow room for a longer prop or a set of ABWs

So here is the question and dilemma that I am facing.

1. "Newly Overhauled" Bob io-540-d4a5 (experimental) 260hp from the other side of the continent
2. 150hr io-540-w1a5 (certified) from a local source that is technically 235hp but could turned turned up to 260
3. If I go with the local engine it could be set up as Injected or Carburated?

Your opinions much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

**Mark Goldberg** · 01-07-2017, 07:35 AM

The W1 (1 especially) designation means this engine does not have the correct counterweights on the crankshaft to run a modern "compact hub" Hartzell prop like you have on your plane. It needs to have the 3 or 5 designation meaning the better (heavier) counterweights on the crankshaft. I have heard these can be added without breaking open the case. But I am no expert on engine matters. Do a Google search for Lycoming engine designations and learn about the different engines. Mark

**whee** · 01-07-2017, 10:15 AM

I agree with Mark in that you need to look at your prop options and choose the engine/prop combo that you want. I did a quick search on Mac props, because I prefer Macs, and this what I found:

Longest Mac approved for a IO540-D engine is 79"...that's not long enough.

Longest Mac approved for the IO540-W is 86"...that's what I'm talking about

But then I don't know that I'd be changing pistons and turning up the RPM a bunch.

This is new info for me and is making me kinda wonder....

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IO-360 to O-540 Engine Upgrade Tips

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