New Builder Several Questions

[Sebastian]

Well I finely got a chance to work on cleaning mouse urine a poop from the other wing today. What a mess, this was the wing that was on the bottom of the packing stack. The wife and I had cleaned up the other wing pretty easy but this one is something else. I am going to attach some pictures to give an idea of what we were seeing. I hope you will be able to make everything out. I discovered that I do have some corrosion to deal with. Looks like it will take removing some parts to do some sanding and re-apply some inhibitor. "I am hoping I can get some of the same white coating from Mark that they put on at the factory."

The pictures are before and after looks. Two are very light and it may be difficult to see the difference in the shades of the primer color, but if you can see it the lighter color is from the mouse urine.
I don't perceive this as being a problem since this is on the top surface of the wing and will be sanded, primed, and painted at a later date. IF YOU THINK I AM WRONG PLEASE SAY SOMETHING! You won't hurt my feelings. Just trying to do the right thing here.

[Zzz]

The Lycoming parrallel-valve 540 platform can get you north of 300 hp, with no weight penalty, though you are firmly in the experimental arena. It's mostly just pistons to alter the compression ratio, and then possibly some port and polish work. The angle valve variety come in at 290-300 hp with more reasonable compression ratios, but weigh more.

[Battson]

Well I finely got a chance to work on cleaning mouse urine a poop from the other wing today. What a mess, this was the wing that was on the bottom of the packing stack. The wife and I had cleaned up the other wing pretty easy but this one is something else. I am going to attach some pictures to give an idea of what we were seeing. I hope you will be able to make everything out. I discovered that I do have some corrosion to deal with. Looks like it will take removing some parts to do some sanding and re-apply some inhibitor. "I am hoping I can get some of the same white coating from Mark that they put on at the factory."

The pictures are before and after looks. Two are very light and it may be difficult to see the difference in the shades of the primer color, but if you can see it the lighter color is from the mouse urine.
I don't perceive this as being a problem since this is on the top surface of the wing and will be sanded, primed, and painted at a later date. IF YOU THINK I AM WRONG PLEASE SAY SOMETHING! You won't hurt my feelings. Just trying to do the right thing here.

I had a similar problem with a skunk that had been living in the wing, while it was in storage at the ranch. For me, it was just the fuel tank bay so I was able to easily clean it up.

I simply used a light 300 grit sandpaper to remove the corrosion, and then a red scotch-bright pad to smooth everything out. We had some considerable corrosion, and had to remove quite a lot of material. I merely painted over the affected areas. We are operating in a corrosive marine environment, 480 hrs so far and 2.5 years, and we have had zero problems caused by that urine-related corrosion.

[Sebastian]

CONFLICTED!!!!

I recently got to visit with a Patrol builder to get a better idea of what the build process looks like. IT WAS SOBERING! I am sure I am not the first beginning builder that has felt this way. I had a time frame in mind that now appears to be unrealistic. I am now looking at options that would put me in a flying plane sooner than continuing this build. I know where there is another 4place that is further along than mine and is being built by a builder that has built several planes over his life. It looks EXCELLENT by the way. Just don't feel that I have the finances to take it up currently.

What I would really like is some input on this option: I have found a 4place that is already flying but doesn't have the power plant I want (I want the 0-540 it has the 190hp 0-360) and the instrument panel is basic steam gauge panel and I want glass with IFR abilities. I could purchase this plane but I don't have any idea how much it would cost to swap the engine and prop or how big a job this could turn into in time and money.

I figure some of you are saying right now that this guy needs to decide if he wants to build or fly. I get that. (So does my wife) EXPERIENCED ADVISE PLS.

[Mark Moyle]

First thought...buy the airplane...fly it. Build the engine and panel you want.. Then sell the O-360 when you're ready for the engine and panel swap. If the buyer is looking for an experimental engine you could get a good sum...but a buyer for a certified installation wouldn't pay more than core value.


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[jaredyates]

All of those feelings you describe are very common, and I suspect we have all felt them to varying degrees at various times. I certainly have and still do sometimes.

We often say for it to be worthwhile to build an airplane, you'd have to want to enjoy the building process as its own hobby. If building is just a path to getting to an airplane, it's way too expensive to build if your time is worth anything. If you really are excited about the hobby of airplane building, then can you buy something on the Champ/Citabria spectrum and fly that while you build? If you are less excited about building just for building's sake, then I think you are on the right track to shop for a flying Bearhawk.

Are you considering the airplane with the smaller engine and traditional panel because it is the only one you can find for sale, or because it is cheaper? I'm sure we'd all be glad to buy a plane with the expensive engine and expensive prop at the price of a plane without either, right? The opportunity to buy a Bearhawk with the panel and engine you want might come along, but it might also be very expensive.

To help put some numbers to the cost of upgrading the panel, I've been researching the Skyview system. If you are willing to learn how to do the work yourself, it looks like a Skyview installation and an IFR GPS would run you around $17k depending on the particulars. Maybe Baloo can give you some guidance on the engine swap, since he's doing that. You should have no trouble finding a Bearhawk builder to buy your old engine firewall forward, but you'd probably be buying a new mount, new prop, baffles, likely some cowl changes, maybe some fuel system upgrades, etc. Napkin-level math might put you at $30k after you sell the old one, depending on how much of the work you do yourself and how well you can buy the new stuff and sell the old. Maybe others more knowledgeable can confirm or dispute those numbers.

One advantage of going with the flying airplane now is the possibility that you might enjoy flying it enough as-is to postpone the engine/panel swap, perhaps indefinitely.

[Battson]

Personally, given the costs are likely to be neutral, if you have the money in hand, want to fly, and are prepared to sacrifice your choices of build options - buy a flying plane.
Then do your best to leave it be.
Once you start down the rabbit hole of rebuilding someone else's work, you are likely to be doing it a lot longer than you think.

[jaredyates]

My experience increasingly shows that even rebuilding my own work can be a rabbit hole. YMMV as they say!

[Bdflies]

Hrmphhhhh! I'm pretty sure my presence has been described many times, in many ways. I'm equally certain that 'sobering' is a first!
Whatever you decide, C.J., help and advice are not very far away!

Bill

[Battson]

CONFLICTED!!!!

I recently got to visit with a Patrol builder to get a better idea of what the build process looks like. IT WAS SOBERING! I am sure I am not the first beginning builder that has felt this way. I had a time frame in mind that now appears to be unrealistic. I am now looking at options that would put me in a flying plane sooner than continuing this build. I know where there is another 4place that is further along than mine and is being built by a builder that has built several planes over his life. It looks EXCELLENT by the way. Just don't feel that I have the finances to take it up currently.

What I would really like is some input on this option: I have found a 4place that is already flying but doesn't have the power plant I want (I want the 0-540 it has the 190hp 0-360) and the instrument panel is basic steam gauge panel and I want glass with IFR abilities. I could purchase this plane but I don't have any idea how much it would cost to swap the engine and prop or how big a job this could turn into in time and money.

I figure some of you are saying right now that this guy needs to decide if he wants to build or fly. I get that. (So does my wife) EXPERIENCED ADVISE PLS.

What are your expectations?

[Sebastian]

Well fellows I appreciate all the comments. Battson asked what my expectation are or were. I had purchased my kit in June and I have pretty good mechanical skills and so I set a time line of December 2017. Very naïve on my part as I quickly found out. Bill sobered me up from that fantasy about as fast as throwing ice water on a drunk. LOL

I have decided to continue with my own build, that way I can spread the expense out and wind up in the end with what I have envisioned. I think my biggest stumbling block was no vision about where to start. I have to thank Bill, Ron B., and Mark G ( who used the elephant analogy on me, you know, one bite at a time ) and offered good advice on a starting point. I feel fortunate to be within a couple hours drive time to all of them.

[Sebastian]

Got another question: Has anyone tried using a Cessna 150 or 152 lower windshield trim piece on the 4place Bearhawk? Pluses? Minuses?

[Sebastian]

OK, wings are painted and I am working on installing the fuel tanks. I noticed on the reserve tanks for the 4place that there is an 1/8" threaded hole on one side near the top of the tank. I'm thinking that is far a fuel return to the tank that I just need to plug since I don't have fuel return to the tanks.
Am I correct or way off?

[Mark Goldberg]

That is for an additional vent for the aux tank. Although it has not proven to be needed. Mark

[Sebastian]

Thanks' Mark that's what I needed. CJ

[Sebastian]

Ok how have y'all fixed the impingement issues where the doors open up against the fabric and aluminum. If I don't figure this out my cargo door is going to cut the fabric. IMG_1737.JPGIMG_1736.JPG