Front door and cargo door skins/ alum skin over aileron pulley

[Tim213]

Hi all, my question is what did you do when riveting the skins to the doors. Did you countersink the tubing and dimple the skins using countersunk stainless rivets? Or did you simply rivet the skin without countersinking? Secondly my Bravo kit has aluminum skins for above the aileron pulley on the fuselage.
i know most of you did not have this and simply used fabric for this area. For any who did use the aluminum skin how did you attach at the bottom. I have only one tab below to attach to and am planning on welding a couple more tabs down below. Any thoughts? Thanks as always for your help.

[Bcone1381]

I was looking at this type of stuff at Oshkosh this year, and took a lot of photos. This is Mark Goldberg's Patrol, and is very typical of what I saw....a 1/8" standard pull rivet. I would guess stainless. THOUGHTS: I have also read about an adhesive from 3M called DP190, (aka Scotch Weld) to supplement the rivets. Aircraft Spruce has a 3/32 stainless countersunk rivet and a protruding head rivet that would have a smaller foot print, and require less material removal than a 1/8 countersunk.
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[Mark Goldberg]

I would not try to use flat head rivets to rivet the skin to the doors. I would suggest either normal pulled rivets or sheet metal screws into the door frame. No reason for stainless here.

That piece of aluminum that goes below the door sill - is it long enough on the bottom to wrap the lower longeron so it can be attached underneath on the forward side of it? Mark

[Tim213]

Mark, I believe it is long enough. If not I will remake it as that is my plan to wrap it underneath and the secure it with no new tabs I will have welded.

[Battson]

Hi all, my question is what did you do when riveting the skins to the doors. Did you countersink the tubing and dimple the skins using countersunk stainless rivets? Or did you simply rivet the skin without countersinking? Secondly my Bravo kit has aluminum skins for above the aileron pulley on the fuselage.
i know most of you did not have this and simply used fabric for this area. For any who did use the aluminum skin how did you attach at the bottom. I have only one tab below to attach to and am planning on welding a couple more tabs down below. Any thoughts? Thanks as always for your help.

I used normal pop rivets on the doors, and painted over them. Some corrosion has started in these areas after 4 years and a lot of salty air. Stainless steel would make that corrosion problem worse because of the galvanic cell which exists between the aluminium and stainless steel. The best thing would be to prime all parts carefully and use some corrosion inhibitor paste like "Duralac" when you assemble them.

The earlier kits also came with aluminium under the door sills, around the aileron pulley.
The bottom edge of those side panels is largely held in place by the gear leg fairings. To secure those side panels, I used two nut plates. One on the welded tab in the middle of the gear leg, and another nut plate upon the belly skin panel. This second nut plate is at the trailing edge of the panel. I would not recommend attaching the panels to each other, it gets messy when you want to take things apart. Better to use another welded tab.
I honestly don't think it needs any more than those two attachment points per side, anything more screws would be surplus to requirements .

[Bcone1381]

"No Stainless Steel Rivets." and use Normal Protruding head pull rivets. Thanks for making this forum so great.

I have some Rattle Can self etching primer and EZ-turn fuel lubricant on the shelf. Does it seem prudent to apply a shot of primer to the rivets and the tubing where the holes will be drilled? Additionally, after the primer is dry, install the rivets with a smidgen EZ Turn lubricant applied to each one? (EZ turn tube says great for anti-corrosion, anti seize, applications. Evidently its more than just a sealant for o-rings exposed to the fuel environment)

[Bdflies]

Brooks, the primer sounds good, but I'd be real careful about putting any sort of lubricant where you'll eventually spray paint. On a previous project, I dipped each Avex rivet in chromate primer, just prior to inserting and pulling the rivet. Then, a quick wipe with lacquer thinner, cleaned up the surface.
I don't think I'd put any lube on them. can you say 'fish eye'?

Bill

[Battson]

"No Stainless Steel Rivets." and use Normal Protruding head pull rivets. Thanks for making this forum so great.

I have some Rattle Can self etching primer and EZ-turn fuel lubricant on the shelf. Does it seem prudent to apply a shot of primer to the rivets and the tubing where the holes will be drilled? Additionally, after the primer is dry, install the rivets with a smidgen EZ Turn lubricant applied to each one? (EZ turn tube says great for anti-corrosion, anti seize, applications. Evidently its more than just a sealant for o-rings exposed to the fuel environment)

What you can do, is inject a shot of linseed oil into the tube, before you pull the last rivet. That will keep things from rusting from the inside out.

BUT A WARNING! You do need to seal the rivets with something like an epoxy or fuel tank sealant as you put them in, otherwise the linseed oil will leak out and make a mess in the process. Pulled rivets are not watertight in this application, or any application if you don't fill the rivet's centre-hole, but the actual riveted parts will leak too if not sealed.

[whee]

In a news letter Bob mentions drilling/threading holes in the door frame and using machine screws. That is the method I'm using because much of my doors are windows and I want the fasteners to be removable so I can replace the windows as needed. If I were using the standard aluminum skins I'd pop rivet them on using closed end aluminum pop rivets.

[Rorch]

Hi Guys, new to the thread and just starting a quickbuild patrol. I have built several planes over the last few years and when I used pulled rivets on fuselage I would mix a bit of micro balloon with epoxy and cover each rivet with a toothpick. Let it dry and then knock of the top with sanding block. This seals the rivet hole and makes the rivet look like a solid driven rivet when painted. Seems to impede any corrosion. Just a thought. Cheers and thanks for all this good info!

[Steve W]

I filled all 25000 rivets like that on a Rebel. Used a syringe and needle.
I glued my 3 door skins on my patrol to the steel tube and am very pleased with the results.

[Bcone1381]

Steve,

Only glue and no rivets? What type of glue.

[Steve W]

Yes. Only glue. Research the specs on the 3M DP-190. I've used it on the wing trailing edges of some aircraft rather than a wavy line of rivets. If prepped correctly, it is very strong.

[Mark Goldberg]

There is an adhesive that the RV guys use on their canopies that is quite strong. Not sure if it is this one or another. MG