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  • #16
    I too am planning dual G3X, dual nav/comms with AP and backup G5. Basically same as Rollie and Rod. Got a great deal on VAF for my radios and intercom, great stuff to be had there if you keep an eye out. Looking at squeezing two 10” displays but it’s going to be tight.
    Dave B.
    Edmonds, WA
    4 Place Quick Build

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    • #17
      There is a Bearhawk builder in Oklahoma named Kelley Babin. Kelly owns an avionics shop. He also does airline avionics work. Anyone wanting to buy radios etc might want to give Kelley a try. Mark

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      • #18
        I think I will have less than 7k in my panel with a single 8 or 10 inch EFIS (integrated com, gps, and xponder) and IPAD. The amount of capability it will have is shocking compared to the past. Backups? The tablet has its own GPS and mapping, as does my Samasung S8. That makes 3 mapping GPS's. My backup com is my S8, and I might get one of the little Magellan Satellite sms messangers. I think they were 200 dollars last time I looked. I think all of this will weigh under 10 lbs

        Maybe someday in the future I will want to file IFR, but right now I am going cheap and light.

        You would be amazed how little mapping capability part 121 aircraft have. The vast majority of us now have company issued tablets, and their affect on situational awareness is awesome, even if they don't increase the approach or enroute navigation capability of the aircraft.

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        • Archer39J
          Archer39J commented
          Editing a comment
          Right? I use an iPad mini and will continue to in my BH, though I'd much prefer an Android the apps just aren't there. It's my primary flight planning tool.

      • #19
        The gps in tablets and newer smartphones is amazing. Turn it on in cruise and it gets a full lock in 10-15 seconds. Jeppeson Pro shows your position enroute, on the 10-9, and even on the approach charts. Android allows offline mapping so google maps works even in airplane mode as long as you have saved the area previously. I don't know if IOS allows this.

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        • JimParker256
          JimParker256 commented
          Editing a comment
          Yep - you can "pre-load" the map data for Google Maps on an iPhone or iPad (with GPS) just as you can on Android phones/tablets.

      • #20
        Luke

        Here is a picture of my panel with the 10" G3X. When you look at the picture the blue tape outlines the 3/4" angle behind the panel at the top and the 3/4" tube for the bottom of the panel.

        Taking my mock up panel tomorrow to get the final panel design water jet cut.

        IMG_2022.JPG


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        • Luke68
          Luke68 commented
          Editing a comment
          Looks good, nice to know that it will fit. do you plan on cutting out the green areas for stick clearance or is that just a no switch area?

        • Sebastian
          Sebastian commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes cutting out the green areas so I don't have to shorten the sticks as much.

      • #21
        So, am I a fool for thinking I'm going to have a very basic steam gauge setup, with EGT about the only thing over and above the minimum required? No transponder or ADS-B for me, either - I envision being perfectly happy avoiding class C and B entirely.

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        • BTAZ
          BTAZ commented
          Editing a comment
          Not sure if you saw my earlier reply, but that's exactly what I did, For day VFR it has gotten me from AZ to Oshkosh and back, I have no problems flying into the various Class D airports in the Phoenix area. By avoiding an engine driven electrical system, you can fly into the Mode C veil(but not actual Class B). That's good enough to get you into most large city GA airports as they tend to be class D and under the shelf. It also exempts you from ADSB.

          Easily under $400 if you shop used.

          A tablet with Avare(or your favorite Nav program) takes care of the rest. For backup if the tablet dies, I also have Avare installed on my phone.

          But each to their own.
          Last edited by BTAZ; 02-19-2018, 08:13 PM.

        • JJohnston
          JJohnston commented
          Editing a comment
          I did see that, and now you've piqued my interest. You have a battery and a starter, but no alternator? Do you plug the airplane in when you're at home? Did you add up all your amperage demand and size the battery accordingly?

          Let's see what you get and what you give up. You give up the ability to fly at night, and to even have lighted instruments (or did you?), and you have to accept the risk of a low or dead battery even if the engine runs perfectly, and?. You get less weight, simpler build, less expensive, can go under a class B (probably a bigger deal for you, being near Phoenix, than me), and? What effect does it have on class C? Have you ever found yourself at that last fuel stop before the leg home and the sun going down?

          What does the tablet do, other than the GPS & moving map? I started (and stopped) flying before the handheld device age, so I've never used anything but a chart and a watch. I'm kind of afraid to get spoiled.
          Last edited by JJohnston; 02-20-2018, 08:41 PM.

        • Bdflies
          Bdflies commented
          Editing a comment
          As to the question about Class C ops when it's nearing your only option; a quick phone call to the Class C tower should get you in. I've done it and seen it done. Explain that you're non Xponder equipped, requesting entry from "the West". They will "probably" give you a reporting point and welcome you in. You can even try a radio call, explaining 'non Xponder equipped, requesting entry'. I'd be surprised if you were denied, unless it was 5:30 on a Friday and the Citations and Gulfstreams were lined up for departure...
          Please note: I'm not suggesting that anyone do this on a regular basis. I'm merely suggesting that the lack of a Xponder should never be the cause of fuel exhaustion because of avoiding Charlie airspace.

          Bill

      • #22
        Like someone mentioned about VAF, I got a good deal there on a G3X and 696. Added a GTR 200 as the primary radio and a new old stock ICOM 200 as a backup. Remote transponder under the right seat. The entire panel was constructed around the map box in the center. No ADSB or auto pilot yet.

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        • JimParker256
          JimParker256 commented
          Editing a comment
          Very nice - I like it.

      • #23
        Originally posted by JJohnston View Post
        I did see that, and now you've piqued my interest. You have a battery and a starter, but no alternator? Do you plug the airplane in when you're at home? Did you add up all your amperage demand and size the battery accordingly?

        Let's see what you get and what you give up. You give up the ability to fly at night, and to even have lighted instruments (or did you?), and you have to accept the risk of a low or dead battery even if the engine runs perfectly, and?. You get less weight, simpler build, less expensive, can go under a class B (probably a bigger deal for you, being near Phoenix, than me), and? What effect does it have on class C? Have you ever found yourself at that last fuel stop before the leg home and the sun going down?

        What does the tablet do, other than the GPS & moving map? I started (and stopped) flying before the handheld device age, so I've never used anything but a chart and a watch. I'm kind of afraid to get spoiled.
        As background, my aircraft is a Bearhawk LSA.

        1. I charge the battery every ten hours of flight or so. I made it easily removable so I can take it with me if on the road and no power availible near the plane. I've gone 15 hours with at least 12 starts without an issue.

        2. I've had a couple aircraft that didn't have a battery at all so hand propping doesn't worry me if the main battery is dead. The radio and tablet have their own batteries so not really an issue.

        3. I learned in the 80's and was "drug into" having a moving map GPS when Phoenix redesigned their airspace about ten years ago and put the boundaries on DME arcs instead of logical landmarks. For most flights, Its purpose is to negotiate Class B though it certainly spoils you on long distance flights. I started with a dedicated aviation GPS but when it went obsolete and could no longer be updated I started using Avare.

        So the main limitations are:

        No night flying allowed both from a practical aspect and , IIRC, you have to have an engine driven electrical system per the FARs.

        No engine driven electrical system means no Xponder, encoder, or ADSB required with the limitations(and benefits) that go with it(no Class A, B or C airspace or during VIP TFRs,altitude limited to the lower of 10000' MSL or 2500' above the surface, don't think you can cross international borders, access to flight following is limited, won't show up as traffic on others ADSB displays)

        Have to stick with traditional mags and gravity feed fuel systems as well as mechanical instruments. I am thinking of adding a carb temp gauge but it will need a momentary push button to take a reading so it isn;t a constant battery draw.

        No strobe or other illumination required or practical. There are Air Force studies (https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-458147.html) that basically state they are useless during daytime so not a big issue.
        Last edited by BTAZ; 02-21-2018, 11:12 AM.

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        • #24
          A tablet brings amazing situational awareness, if not outright capability. It brings NO capability for what i fly at work, and we aren't allowed to use 1/2 of its capabilities available to GA pilots. And it is probably the cheapest piece of kit on many panels. EFIS is another. I have also never flow GA EFIS, but after an hour of flying one for the first time at my job, I never wanted to go back. As a matter of fact "backup" steam gauges are a very poor backup for and EFIS, as you will be so rusty after not using one, you will forget how to fly off the little white dials. The only real backup for an EFIS, is another EFIS.

          But if you gotta have steam gauges, have steam gauges. They work too. And are cheap. I just don't know how to use them anymore, and thanks to cheap EFIS's, I don't need too.

          Different strokes.

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          • #25
            This is about what I will have, minus some of the panel mounted fuses. Single EFIS, 1 integrated xponder (squawking 1200 all the time), 1 com, 1 gps. 1 IPAD. 8 covered toggle switches. 1 keyed ignition switch. The IPAD on a RAM mount that can pivot to the right and mirror the PFD display for flying from the right seat.

            Who knows maybe in 10 years it will all be so cheap and light I will have a full width single screen and full IFR capability, but this is how I will start.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by BTAZ View Post

              No night flying allowed both from a practical aspect and , IIRC, you have to have an engine driven electrical system per the FARs..
              My line of thinking is much along your lines BATZ. Your memory is close to being correct but not quite. Night VFR: 91.205(c)(5) "An adequate source of electrical energy for all installed electrical and radio equipment." Could be a battery or other means.

              And FWIW, IFR: 91.205(d)(7) "Generator or alternator of adequate capacity." Not required to be engine driven - could be air driven, pedal, hand crank, or hamster (team of course) wheel driven!

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              • BTAZ
                BTAZ commented
                Editing a comment
                That's an interesting twist. I'm operating LSA but if I went Basic Med then night is open again though I still probably wouldn't exercise that aspect much.

                Given LED lighting, I wonder what is achievable for the bare minimum power drain , Heck, if you could run the requisite panel/position lights for an hour or so off the battery.....
                Last edited by BTAZ; 02-21-2018, 11:21 AM.

            • #27
              BTAZ do you not have any electric instruments at all? Do you have EGT/CHT? Battery strength indicator? Intercom? This is the first time I've ever heard of anybody going with a "partial" electrical system.

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              • BTAZ
                BTAZ commented
                Editing a comment
                I have a CHT but it is also a passive analog instrument.

                if the ship battery dies I lose:

                The starter which I can hand prop if needed,
                Intercom which I can bypass by turning it off.
                ANR for my headsets which just fall back to passive noise reduction.

                As mentioned before, both the radio and tablet are plugged in to the ship battery but have their own internal batteries if the ship battery dies.
                Last edited by BTAZ; 02-21-2018, 12:10 PM. Reason: edited for clarity

            • #28
              What BTAZ is doing is not uncommon for pilots over on the Back Country Pilots forum. Those little EarthX batteries contain a LOT of juice! A few of the guys have starters, but don't even have a battery in their airplane – they just use a "jump pack" (like the one EarthX sells) to start their engine.

              Personally, I like the traffic info that you get with ADS-B, and I like to use Flight Following on cross country flights, so I'll be putting in at least a minimal electrical system.
              Jim Parker
              Farmersville, TX (NE of Dallas)
              Patrol Quick-Build Serial # P312

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