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"Scratch" build of #398

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  • #1

    "Scratch" build of #398

    I've FINALLY gotten started building. It took longer to get my shop cleared out and ready to work in again than I thought it would (or should have)

    I'm starting with the ailerons both from advice on here as well as a little logical thinking of what's the best way to learn the processes. I'll get both ailerons built and then move on to building both flaps before starting on the wings. Hopefully this will also give Mark time to get the new one-piece spar caps produced for the Patrol and selling to homebuilders.

    I started a YouTube channel I'm using to document everything, some on here are already watching I know...

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS_..._as=subscriber

    For people who don't watch YouTube, I'll be posting up some pics and descriptions on here that I capture from video. I'm looking forward to the ride, but I know it's gonna be a long one! "small bites"
    https://www.youtube.com/user/fastfox23
    Patrol plans #398
    Tags: None
    • Likes 3
  • #2
    I bought the spar and rib package from Mark, seemed like a cost effective move to me, and so far I'm happy with the parts I've got.
    So far, I've got the spars marked with rib and hinge locations, I built a couple tools to help prep the ribs, and I've wasted time waiting on my aluminum to show up...


    Rib straightener.jpg I stole this design from B-Spot, who stole it from the RV guys. It's just a simple, fast way to complete the 90 degree flanges
    ​

    fluting anvil.jpg Also stolen from B-Spot, this is the start to my fluting tool. It will operate in the same way as the flange strightener, but with the dowel set in there it SHOULD give me nice flutes... we'll see if it actually works later.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/fastfox23
    Patrol plans #398
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    • #3
      So, looking at the plans, it's a little confusing for me to determine how many rivets I should be using, or rivet spacing along the ribs, etc... any tips? I'm currently working on my aileron rib attach angles, I "think" it calls for 5 rivets into the spar??? And looks like 4 into the rib? Is that right?
      https://www.youtube.com/user/fastfox23
      Patrol plans #398
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      • #4
        Screen Shot 2020-08-28 at 8.00.43 AM.png
        Looks to me like the plans call out four rivets (AN470AD-3) in my plans to attach the Ribs to the Aileron Spar.

        Plans p.3 call out 1.5 inch spacing using AN426AD-3 to attach the skin to the ribs.
        Brooks Cone
        Southeast Michigan
        Patrol #303, Kit build
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        • Russellmn
          #4.1
          Russellmn commented
          08-28-2020, 11:21 AM
          Editing a comment
          Thanks, after I had posted this, I realized it was just 4 from the attach angle to the rib as well. Part of the fun is figuring out the drawings I guess!
      • #5
        I'm hoping if I'm wrong, someone will tell me...
        My plan on the ailerons is: I've got the attach angles built and drilled, 4 rivet holes to the spar, and 4 to the rib. I believe this is correct? Moving forward, I plan to clamp the two spars together back to back, so I can drill both spars identical/symmetrical. Then I'll position the attach angle as needed to place the rib where it goes and drill through both spars using the predrilled angles as a guide. To my mind, this will result in both spars being drilled the same and ready to rivet the angles on.

        Does anything sound wrong about this? Am I totally off base? Or will that work?

        Appreciate any and all comments/criticisms/etc...

        Russell
        https://www.youtube.com/user/fastfox23
        Patrol plans #398
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        • #6
          Originally posted by Russellmn View Post
          I'm hoping if I'm wrong, someone will tell me...
          Moving forward, I plan to clamp the two spars together back to back, so I can drill both spars identical/symmetrical. Then I'll position the attach angle as needed to place the rib where it goes and drill through both spars using the predrilled angles as a guide. To my mind, this will result in both spars being drilled the same and ready to rivet the angles on.

          Does anything sound wrong about this? Am I totally off base? Or will that work?

          Appreciate any and all comments/criticisms/etc...

          Russell
          You will be assembling and dis-assembling things a number of times. Like drilling, then removing then priming each part, etc. Keeping all the parts in order becomes a considerable task if all the parts are not identical.

          So therefore, Consider making a drilling jig for your attach angles. Make it out of steel (to limit hole elongation with use) and place the holes in the jig symmetrically so the jig does not have to be oriented upside down or right side up. Symetrical & identical attach angles is a blessing.
          Last edited by Bcone1381; 09-03-2020, 09:01 AM. Reason: clarification
          Brooks Cone
          Southeast Michigan
          Patrol #303, Kit build
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          • Russellmn
            #6.1
            Russellmn commented
            09-03-2020, 06:18 PM
            Editing a comment
            I built a jig based off of Dave Bottita's (Desert Bearhawk) design. All the angles are drilled and ready to go.
          • Sir Newton
            #6.2
            Sir Newton commented
            02-02-2022, 02:56 PM
            Editing a comment
            100% I made all the various attach angles & then used them as my drill patterns for each individual part. Then used a set of low stress metal stamps to mark all the parts. :-) That my 2 toonies
        • #7
          If you screw up your layout, you'll scrap/repair two parts instead of one. Drill to a #40 first and then to net. A second set of eyes you trust might not hurt. Your plan seems OK, let us know how it works. It's on the horizon for me.
          Gerry
          Patrol #30
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          • #8
            Got the spars drilled today. Went pretty well, drilled to a #41.
            ​
            https://www.youtube.com/user/fastfox23
            Patrol plans #398
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            • #9
              Latest video is up...

              Patrol Build Ep 5
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37JUBLXprqo
              The work continues! Rib attach angles and spars got holes in them. I'm really starting to enjoy the process of building these wings, I hope you enjoy watchi...
              https://www.youtube.com/user/fastfox23
              Patrol plans #398
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              • Bcone1381
                #9.1
                Bcone1381 commented
                09-08-2020, 03:02 PM
                Editing a comment
                You do a very nice job with your Videos, Russel!!
              • Russellmn
                #9.2
                Russellmn commented
                09-08-2020, 04:49 PM
                Editing a comment
                Thanks, I'm learning. I wasn't terribly happy with Ep. 4, but I think 5 came out much better.
              • Sir Newton
                #9.3
                Sir Newton commented
                02-02-2022, 02:58 PM
                Editing a comment
                I just subscribed to your channel :-) two thumbs up!
            • #10
              Got my ailerons all drilled up and cleco'd together!


              I'll get going on building the hinges and finishing out the aluminum work on these this week, we'll see if I can get it all done this week or if it'll be next week before tearing it apart and deburring and prepping for primer.
              You do not have permission to view this gallery.
              This gallery has 1 photos.
              https://www.youtube.com/user/fastfox23
              Patrol plans #398
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              • #11
                Question on the hinges... The nutplates that attach to the doubler plates on the spar, are they riveted through the spar as well? Or flush rivets just to the doubler plate?
                https://www.youtube.com/user/fastfox23
                Patrol plans #398
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                • #12
                  Through the spar,doubler, and the nutplate per sht 10.
                  Gerry
                  Patrol #30
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                  • Sir Newton
                    #12.1
                    Sir Newton commented
                    02-02-2022, 03:05 PM
                    Editing a comment
                    I cheated & only riveted through the .063 doubler to nut plates. imho, The structural strength comes from the 4- 3/16 bolt used to mount the flap/aileron to hinge. I may really regret this short cut if I ever need to change a nut plate. However changing a nut plate in either case still requires fabric to be cut/removed & repaired.
                • #13
                  Well, as many noticed, I dropped off the map for a while. Looks like that's going to continue for a while to come unfortunately. Family issues came up and I'm needed to help take care of my Father who's learning to deal with ALS. 2 years from walking and working fine, to wheelchair bound. Hopefully I'll be able to get back to the build sometime this year, but not optimistic right now.
                  https://www.youtube.com/user/fastfox23
                  Patrol plans #398
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                  • marcusofcotton
                    #13.1
                    marcusofcotton commented
                    01-13-2021, 07:22 PM
                    Editing a comment
                    So sorry to hear this Russell, glad for him that he has you to help him through. Hang in there buddy.
                  • JimParker256
                    #13.2
                    JimParker256 commented
                    01-14-2021, 10:23 AM
                    Editing a comment
                    Man, that's rough. Prayers for your Dad, as well as you and your family. I know how hard it can be to care a loved one (I took care of my aging Mom for many years after Dad passed), and there will be days when you may get fed up with it, but try to cherish every moment of every day you have with him. I deeply admire the fact that you're prioritizing your family over your own desires.
                • #14
                  I feel privileged that such a selfless person is one of us.
                  Gerry
                  Patrol #30
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                  • Russellmn
                    #14.1
                    Russellmn commented
                    01-14-2021, 06:54 PM
                    Editing a comment
                    My Dad and I built my house and shop where I filmed my videos, back in 2012 he took 2 weeks vacation (I had just started my job so I didn't have the time to take off yet) and worked all day until I showed up to work til 8 or 9 each night. Then after his vacation we continued the same way, working after work til 8 or 9, all day on weekends, except for Church on Sunday, from July of 2012 til I moved in March of 2013.

                    He's done so much for me in my 40 years, there's no way I could NOT help him when he needs it. Fortunately my Mom is still healthy and able to help him with most things, but when he falls she can't get him up again. When things in their house need fixing, he can't do it anymore. I'm lucky he taught me so much about house construction and maintenance so I can take over.
                  • jaredyates
                    #14.2
                    jaredyates commented
                    01-15-2021, 08:45 AM
                    Editing a comment
                    When you look back on this time, 5, 10 or more years from now, I think you'll be grateful to have had the time together with him. The airplane project will still be there and will store just fine.
                • #15
                  I'm starting to think about getting back to this build now, but pretty sure I'm gonna just buy the quick build wings. $20k-ish to save how much labor??? Seems worth it to me. If I have the cash next year maybe I'll buy the quick build fuselage too, or maybe I'll build my own fuse. I'm pretty good with steel tubing and fab work so I definitely feel more confident with that end of things going quickly.
                  https://www.youtube.com/user/fastfox23
                  Patrol plans #398

                  Comment

                  • mswain
                    #15.1
                    mswain commented
                    01-24-2022, 02:58 PM
                    Editing a comment
                    Took me around 3 years to build my wings
                  • Russellmn
                    #15.2
                    Russellmn commented
                    01-24-2022, 03:09 PM
                    Editing a comment
                    So... $7k per year? Worth it to me I think... Now that I have a little more spare cash running around anyway...
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