Canadian Standards for Patrol builders

[Isilverone]

Hi Guys,
Thought I would give you Canadians some info on trouble I ran into with MDRA during my final inspection of my Patrol. the Items are

1) Cables cannot deviate from straight more than 3 deg. I had to relocate my trim eyelets aswell as weld in Pulley's for the rudder cables ( this sucked).
2) If you use a rubber connection on your fuel lines in the wing root, you will need to "seal off" the wing root and fuel line so that if the rubber connection leaks, it won't run down the fuel line and enter the cabin
3) Need alternate air in the event of air filter icing
4) must ground the fuel tanks to the airframe
5) Baggage area tie downs have to be installed

I had items 3,4 and 5 done but wanted to mention them for others

Now I wait for paperwork. The sleepless nights continue,

[whee]

I’m curious about item #3. My intake system is from an STCd kit to install a Continental IO360 on a Temco Swift and has no alternate air. I assume Transport Canada would find this acceptable on the Swift since it’s installed via STC on a legacy aircraft but would not find it acceptable on a new aircraft, yes?

[Isilverone]

Ya not sure what to tell you. My friend that built his Glasair Sportsman didn’t have alternate and didn’t have to because it wasn’t in the design from Glasair. But that’s a fwf kit from Glasair.

[Steve W]

I was talking with Mike today about the three degree deflection. I’m going to dig into this if I get some time. My understanding was max 3 degree side deflection upon entering and exiting a pulley. I remember something about 15 degrees deflection from a fairlead. If that’s the case then most flap setups that have a fairlead between the two upper pulleys are in contravention too. What a crock. Most of the murphy rebels come off their floor with the rudder cables at an angle way more than 3 degrees. I think the guy who did the inspection is confused over this. I haven’t had a chance to get into the construction Bible so if anyone has, please chime in.
In regards to alternate air, that is an IFR thing and not a requirement for VFR as far as I know. It’s required for aircraft that are certified for flight into known icing.

[Bdflies]

Wow! 3 degrees isn’t much! TC must have heartburn with Huskys, because they use rubber tubes at the wing roots and those panels sure aren’t sealed..
Sounds like y’all endure the inspection and have to wait for airworthiness. Down here, the DAR gives us the airworthiness certificate and we can take off before he leaves! Yeah, I know I’m heartless for saying that... I have confidence that your Patrol will be airborne soon! Post plenty pics!

Bill

[Steve W]

From what I have found so far is yes a fairlead cannot be mounted to support a cable more than three degrees deflection but that is a straight cable between two pulleys. A ruddder cable is a non tentioned cable and can be fitted and directed with fairleads. It is not even required to have return springs. I have an AME buddy looking into this who also happens to teach the stuff. Hope to have a chapter and verse soon.

[Steve W]

Ahh yes. Alternate air source. You have fuel injection. Carb heat is an alternate source for carburation. The Aero Commander I got my I0-360 out of had an alternate air source. Can’t remember if it was manually operated.

[way_up_north]

Hi Guys,
Thought I would give you Canadians some info on trouble I ran into with MDRA during my final inspection of my Patrol. the Items are

1) Cables cannot deviate from straight more than 3 deg. I had to relocate my trim eyelets aswell as weld in Pulley's for the rudder cables ( this sucked).
2) If you use a rubber connection on your fuel lines in the wing root, you will need to "seal off" the wing root and fuel line so that if the rubber connection leaks, it won't run down the fuel line and enter the cabin
3) Need alternate air in the event of air filter icing
4) must ground the fuel tanks to the airframe
5) Baggage area tie downs have to be installed

I had items 3,4 and 5 done but wanted to mention them for others

Now I wait for paperwork. The sleepless nights continue,

Did you happen to document your modifications, in particular #1 and #2 (pictures...ect..) as the models(im building a 4 place) are all so similar these changes might be needed across the Canadian building fleet for approval with the MDRA

what did you end up doing about the fuel line in the wing...is the wing completely sealed off now...and how did you do that?

when you say rubber connector in the wing...do you mean the visual sight gauge?

if you did up an information package detailing this for your mdra approval....(pictures/procedures)...id be happy to buy it...with the understanding its just a starting point...all inspectors are different ....for entertainment purposes only......etc...

[Zook]

I was watching a video of Trent Palmer the other day and saw the fuel gauge tubes he is using on the wing root. It looks a lot like the patrol but set back into the wing enough that it looked like there was a piece of plexy glass over the actual gauge tube. Would this work to meet transports idea of separation of fuel from the cabin ?

[Steve W]

Well, I finally cornered my source for information on the 3* cable deflection issue. He is the only one I would accept an opinion from on this and it is very humbling to say the least. Any "certified" aircraft that had, for example, rudder cables with fairleads installed with more than 3* of deflection was permitted because the manufacturer had shown it was not an issue with AC43. Non certified aircraft which of course is what we all fall into, have to conform to AC43. Period. No exceptions.
On another note, I can't remember where I heard it but there was a comment at that time about the Patrol not yet on the acceptable list of kit planes recognized by Transport Canada and this was a reason why there was a more thorough inspection with trim and rudder cable routing etc. I mentioned this because there have been 4 place Bearhawk inspections conducted in Canada, which is on the TC list, and nothing was said about the cabling.
The acceptable list of kit planes by Transport Canada only reflects the ones they verify meet the 51% rule and nothing else.

[arborite]

resurrecting this older thread regarding the rudder cable forward fairlead deflection angle. My LSA measures right at 15 deg. Since it is readily accessible and easily inspected, i am less worried since this cable is not tensioned. However, since i am just beginning the build, now would be the time to add a pulley if I decide it’s needed. I looked at a bunch of other production aircraft, and all had a pulley located in that position. I also saw on this forum of a scratch built LSA with a pulley installed, so trying to decide how to proceed.

For those of you who have been flying your planes, what sort of wear are you seeing at that fairlead? do you replace annually, on condition, never? Any comments on friction in the rudder system under aggressive use ( meaning lots of pedal pressure such as when you apply brakes)? any perceptible wear on the cable?

thanks

wayne