New member In Boise Idaho

[Mtbarnard]

Hello all,

I currently live in the Boise area and fly with a flying club there (C172). I am a current CFI/CFII and MEI with an ATP and also fly the 737. It has always been a dream of mine to build my own plane but have never been able to find that “perfect” plane. It seems to me that the Bearhawk 4 place is pretty close! I do not have any airplane building experience but consider my self to be a good leaner and good with general mechanics on cars, dirt bikes, and house hold items. I also really enjoy working on things in the garage and having projects.

My my wife and I just had our first kid and I am really excited to get him involved in aviation and keep spreading that flying bug! My current plan is to build the wings from the component kit and then get the quick build fuselage kit later. I would look at getting started around spring of 2020 or sooner if the wife agrees and we gett settled with our new little boy! My thoughts about building the wings from the component kit is to save a little money on the project which would allow me to start sooner. I know that will mean a longer build time and would probably come out as a wash in the end as far as time is concerned. I would really like to have a flying plane in about 3-4 years from now.

I am curious as to yalls thoughts on the wing component kit and the build plans? Is it something a “normal guy” can do? Are the plans easy to follow or do they even apply to the component kit and I’m stuck using schematics and building the wing based on drawings? Another area I haven’t done the math on yet is am I really saving that much building from the component kit? I know I will have buy a few other parts and pieces to get where I would be with the standard quick build kit. Now that being said I know building a plane a certain way just to saving money probably is the best way to start. But I am using it as a way to start sooner.

Any thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated! And if anyone is in the Boise area and doesn’t mind showing off their plane and maybe picking your brain a bit I’d love to get in touch!

Thanks,
Michael

[Chris In Milwaukee]

whee be should near you and can offer some guidance. He has younguns, too, if I recall, and can likely provide some insight there as well.

3-4 years is optimistic, but it’s been done by a scratch builder. But as a guy with a young family, I’d say double that time frame, and then maybe add another 50%. It’s all what you make of it, though. It seems like the typical scratch build project has been getting around 10 years to complete. Using Mark’s components kits from Avipro will certainly save you some time. If I had to do it over, I’d probably go the opposite way and buy the QB wings and scratch build the fuselage. Horse apiece, I reckon, depending in which of your skills you think you’re the best at: sheet metal or welding.

Welcome to the group!

[mswain]

Hi Michael and welcome to the Bearhawk forums.

I had never done any aircraft construction prior to beginning my build, and that includes no experience welding and I was a new Dad with 2 year old daughter. This was 2012.

I am sure you will get many opinions on this thread, this is just my own. If you want a flying plane in 3-4 years then the kit is the only way to go. Even the kit is an extraordinary effort to complete in that time frame unless you are full-time building.

It took me 3 years to scratch build my wings. If I had bought fuel tanks and wingtips I could have maybe done it in a little over 2 years....maybe.

Now with 2 kids and an older daughter, I increasingly devote more time to family endeavors because I can't get that time back. I have a share in a C172 that helps fill my flying bug and allows for the occasional family trip while the BH is under construction.

If you'd like to talk some time I'd be happy to share what I know and what I have learned. It's hard to convey here without writing a book.

I don't think Bob's plans are anywhere near the level of resolution you would find with say an RV. I've seen the RV plans....there is no comparison. This is not to say Bob's plans are bad, but as a first time builder I have relied HEAVILY on this forum and a few key builders that luckily live within driving distance to me. There is a lot of reading between the lines with the plans that might come easy for an experienced builder but I found challenging. This is just my perspective.

There are many threads on the forum here with the kit vs. scratch theme and some of them contain great perspectives.

Another option is to purchase a used Bearhawk, they come up from time to time. Most of the ones I have seen are sold ballpark for what went into them with very little premium for the thousands of hours that went into their construction.

PM me if you want to talk. I can also put you in touch with both kit builders and scratch builders if you want some varied inputs.

[Mtbarnard]

Thanks for your imput guys! As Chris in Milwaukee said that is one of my biggest concerns is this project dragging on and missing out on flying. I do plan on using parts from Avipro to help speed the process up. As far as sheet metal or welding skills I am planning on attending one of the EAA courses on sheet metal work and maybe take a welding class at the local community college and see which one I would like to tackle. But I do have access to club planes so we won’t be without a plane to fly. That being said I plan to make this experience as much of a family project as possible.

mswain I will send you a pm. Thanks

[jaredyates]

My vote is to skip the community college for welding. Our mission is too specific and too unique for them to do it justice and still provide a useful course to everyone else. The better investment would be a sport air welding class.

[Bcone1381]

Post #30 on this thread is worth reading.

https://bearhawkforums.com/forum/bearhawk-4-place-quickbuild/26222-185-vs-bearhawk/page2

I started plans building. After 1.5 years I aborted the plans build and I am now kit building. I am glad I started out the way I did....very educational. Plus, it was huge decision for me to merely declare "I am going to build an airplane." It was probably the biggest part of building for me.

The scratch building got me started without making a $40k investment right away, and I learned I maintained enthusiasm and joy throughout. I make things twice on occasions. My Plans build was heading towards me fabricating two air craft and discarding one for educational purposes...and yet it was still fun for me. But I was on the 20 year plan, and age 50 is too old for that. I want to fabricate a cool sculpture with my discarded parts when I am done....a weather vane, or lawn furniture or something.

[whee]

Since Chris pointed at me I better respond. I’m 4 years in on what I hoped would be a 18mo build😒 I had two young kids when I started that both loved flying. Now I have three kids and the youngest has never been in a plane and the others could care less about planes. I’m building with my Dad (retired) and I have a sugar momma (I’m MrMom) so we can dedicate more hours per week than most other people can.

To be brief, if you want a flying plane in 3-4 years save for the next 2yrs and buy a kit from Mark then spend the next 3 years building. Yeah, I know that equals 5yrs but that’s what’s realistic IMO.

I’m on the east side of the state and hope to have a flying plane in the next few months. Come on over and check it out if you want. Or shoot me a pm and we can chat about building.

[Chris In Milwaukee]

Since Chris pointed at me I better respond.

Sorry to throw you under the bus!

[BravoGolf]

I am just starting my build project and I built an RV-7. This plans build will be much more challenging that my RV. RV kits are CNC'd with the rivet holes pre-punched. While there is some fabrication it is nothing like this plans build. I am also fortunate to have found a set of plans built wings that were partially completed. The builder really did a great job so I have a jump start on the process. Given I am not fabricating any ribs and spars and one wing is at a QB stage, I still don't think I will be done in two to three years.

[BAnton]

Scott, I concur with you on the Bearhawk being a more challenging build than the RVs. I built an RV8 which I'm still flying, a great airplane. But I tell people not to build a Bearhawk as their 1st project unless they have some experienced help. I scratch built the wings, then figured out I would be too old to fly by the time I got the fuselage done if I scratch built it. So I bought the Avi-Pro fuselage. Still took another 2 years to complete after I received the fuselage. On both the RV8 and the Bearhawk, I took them to a local aircraft maintenance shop to complete the final 4-5 months, which included the paint jobs.

[whee]

I am just starting my build project and I built an RV-7. This plans build will be much more challenging that my RV. RV kits are CNC'd with the rivet holes pre-punched. While there is some fabrication it is nothing like this plans build. I am also fortunate to have found a set of plans built wings that were partially completed. The builder really did a great job so I have a jump start on the process. Given I am not fabricating any ribs and spars and one wing is at a QB stage, I still don't think I will be done in two to three years.

Since you built a RV you likely have more experience than I did when I started. I had completed a total restoration, literally tore it to pieces and replaced every piece of hardware except rivets, of a old certified plane but had no EAB build experience and very little BH experience. I bought what I thought was a great head start. I thought the scratch built wings looked great when I inspected them pre-purchase. I hung them on a wall for 3 years and when I took them down I realized how not so great they were. As soon as practical I will be replacing my scratch built wings with QB wings. I sincerely hope the wings you bought are as good as you think they are. It's pretty demoralizing to realize you don't know what you thought you knew and that mistake cost you $,$$$.

[BravoGolf]

Well, I hope so too. I have been going over the one wing that was near QB stage and I have had a couple of other A&Ps look at it as well. So far we have not found any problems, although there are still tasks to be completed. I have been going through the plans and comparing design intentions with completed work. The other wing is ready to begin assembly so that was very easy to check out. I think Doug Laue did a great job. Time will tell.

The RV project gave me great insight into the planning requirements to get the aircraft I wanted as well as started me on the pathway to get my A&P. Sadly none of the build time counted. My comment for the OP was merely to try to indicate the time requirements for a plans built aircraft can be significant, especially if you do not have any aircraft building / maintenance experience. Flying in three to four years is an aggressive schedule, I hope he is successful. Nothing is like flying an aircraft you built.

[Chewie]

Sometimes only the builder knows what evil lurks within! There are mistakes I've made that wouldn't have been caught by anyone else simply because they would've been so well hidden, like an oblong rivet hole or a poor weld puddle. The go/no go decision falls on the builder then and there.

[Mtbarnard]

Heys guys sorry for being off the page for awhile! The kid decided to come a bit early so that took up a lot of my time and focus. I now understand what time restraints I will have with a family. Sounds a bit negative... But all positive restraints! Loving every bit of it! But I will go with a kit and dump the scratch build idea.

Reading all yalls comments I do have some people I know who have a lot of aircraft building experience as well as a few A&Ps as a resource. I plan on starting to assemble a shop and gather tools this year and possibly start next fall or following spring. Now it’s more of financial planning as far as the time line goes. My news thought for planning is how complete is the kit? I have been reading the builder assist manual and have found that it doesn’t include wheels brakes, windshield, hardware kit and the other standard like motor, prop and avionics. I’m sure I’ve left out a few but I guess my question is if you have a kit are you really short on parts and spend a lot of time and money ordering parts?

hope everyone has a good holiday season!

[jaredyates]

Heys guys sorry for being off the page for awhile! The kid decided to come a bit early so that took up a lot of my time and focus. I now understand what time restraints I will have with a family. Sounds a bit negative... But all positive restraints! Loving every bit of it! But I will go with a kit and dump the scratch build idea.

Reading all yalls comments I do have some people I know who have a lot of aircraft building experience as well as a few A&Ps as a resource. I plan on starting to assemble a shop and gather tools this year and possibly start next fall or following spring. Now it’s more of financial planning as far as the time line goes. My news thought for planning is how complete is the kit? I have been reading the builder assist manual and have found that it doesn’t include wheels brakes, windshield, hardware kit and the other standard like motor, prop and avionics. I’m sure I’ve left out a few but I guess my question is if you have a kit are you really short on parts and spend a lot of time and money ordering parts?

hope everyone has a good holiday season!

Mark Goldberg is the best person to ask these questions, he has a list.

[kilohotel]

CONGRATULATIONS on the newest member to the family ! ! ! My kids are now in there early 20's ... which may have something to do with my lack of building time over the last 2 decades, but would not change a thing! ... Those projects turned out great!!!

[spinningwrench]

Michael, I am building a kit Patrol and have $8000 additional invested above the kit cost to get most of the airframe components and hardware, that includes shipping. Still engine/prop, avionics to go.