Intro

[Texaspilot]

Howdy. New member from Houston Texas. Never heard of a Bearhawk before yesterday, but have been toying with the idea of making an airplane. I am considering the plans only, I guess the term is “scratch built” route. I liked what I saw when I looked at the Bearhawk the other day. I honestly don’t know if I have the skills and equipment for a scratch build though, so I thought I would join the site and look around. I have just a two car garage as a shop, and a bunch of minor tools. I do my own auto maintenance, I’ve worked a bit on engines and done some home improvement projects. I want to learn to weld. I am also not in a rush to get in the air. I work as a pilot. I wouldn’t mind if the project took ten years (I don’t think I want it to go much more than that.) I really like the idea of building from plans as I would have to learn more, but I am a bit intimidated that I would get lost in the job, and don’t know if I have or could learn all the skills necessary to complete this. I’ve looked at kit builds such as the Kitfox and I think I could do that without a problem. I am mainly concerned with welding the critical parts, and the actual fabrication of pieces such as ribs and bell cranks. I am also concerned with not having access to a machine shop. Anyways I’m just in the planning and investigating stage and thought the Bearhawk looked cool and thought I could learn from the forum! I can’t imagine that I will be much of a poster, I think I will be more of a reader. Thanks for having me.

[geraldmorrissey]

The only machine tool in my shop is a drill press. You can scratch build with a few power tools. You probably already have most of what you need.
A hack saw and tin snips will get you started.
Good Luck
Gerry
Patrol #30

[Chewie]

How much time per day on average will you have to build?

The nice thing about the bearhawk is you can 'kit up' if you need to and finances allow; a lot of the parts can be either built by you or just bought outright.

Look through the build manuals that Eric Newton sells, take a look at desert bearhawk's YouTube videos (his project is for sale btw), make some flap nose ribs (not much material required but gives you an idea about the sheet metal work) and weld up a hinge mount when you're ready. Oh, and make sure it's the airplane you eventually want to fly! Basically, I recommend you come at the project at an angle so you aren't committed to too much right from the beginning. Actually working on it will tell you if it's for you.

[Texaspilot]

Thanks. I think that is good advice. I would like to try and make a rib and see how that goes. I probably have between 12-25 hours per week to work on it depending on the week. I work on the road as a pilot though, so I won’t be able to hit the project daily. I’m sure there will also be annoying hiatuses when I have to address various car and home issues. (They are all old.) Seems like I have to either fix a car or the house at least once each month...

[Ed Welfred]

I am also scratch building a Patrol. I have welded on and off most of my life but welding thin wall tubing in locations that can be hard to see, and get at, is a hole different ball game. My feeling is that an aircraft fuselage is not a good place to learn and hone the welding craft. That said I chose the Patrol for two reasons, first it was the aircraft I wanted and second any or all parts can be purchased from Mark, which increases the probability the project will be completed.
Have fun with the challange.
Ed

[Texaspilot]

Can someone tell me the max height of the Bearhawk when on its wheels with everything assembled?

[jaredyates]

It will vary with tire size, do you favor Texas-sized tires?

[zkelley2]

Jared, are those 8.50s? Half the size of Alaska Tires?

[Texaspilot]

I like big. I’m from Texas after all... Also, any recommendations as to where to start scratch building. The books seem to show the wings, but I think fuselage may be preferable... I don’t want to store it, but I think I could do he wings, but am not sure about the fuselage welding. I would prefer to do it first so I can learn if I can learn it and do it effectively before spending too much money.

speaking of welding, I may try and buy an oxyacetylene rig this weekend as I hear that’s the best for our type of welding, does anyone know a good source for scrap 4130n to practice on?

[spinningwrench]

Both Aircraft Spruce and Wag Aero sell bundles of 4130 cutoffs. Often they are larger diameters than your typical tubing as used in the fuselage but still good for practice. If you are uncomfortable with doing the full welds on your fuselage you can just tack it and likely find a qualified welder to do the full penetration welds. With some practice you can learn to weld however. The EAA has short courses on TIG welding which are excellent, not sure about gas welding courses.

[Chewie]

Yeah I'm pretty sure they do gas seminars, they are just few and far between.

My welding teachers were an older gentleman who knew the craft and a couple YouTube videos from the 70s that were excellent. And a couple acetylene bottles worth of practice!

I considered starting on the fuselage too, because that looked more involved at first. But many said start on the wings, they are more complicated and if you can finish those your chances of completing the rest of the project are good.plus the wings might store better than a big ol fuselage.

I've heard people report the bundles of scrap 4130 are so random that many of the specimens were impractical. Often there were very thick walled tubes. You might do better to just buy the actual tubing for a part and have at it. You can practice on very small pieces so a few pieces of tubing, some AN hardware and some .050 sheet will keep you busy for a while. You can even practice on plane old mild steel from the local machine shop scrap bin, Ace sells steel tubes too; you don't need 4130 to practice.

[Texaspilot]

Thanks for The advice guys. I’ve read a bunch of articles that said I should do Oxy acetylene welding because it normalizes the steel better to relieve stress, but most of those articles were dated. Would it be better for me to learn tig instead? Don’t you need to reheat your joints with oxyacetylene anyway after tig welding? I don’t know maybe the thinking on this has changed. As always, I value your thoughts.

Also, I only have a small two car garage as a shop. If the wings are done first, how much space do they take up?

completely unrelated, but I really like how the Bearhawk has tube and fabric and riveted aluminum as I want to work with both. Most experimental planes seem to be one or the other and I always thought I would miss doing one of them...

[Chris In Milwaukee]

OA vs TIG is a religious discussion, but I agree that learning gas before TIG is a beneficial exercise for a number of reasons. If you have access to it, EAA’s SportAir Workshops are a good place to get that experience if you’re able to get to them (although sometimes they’ll come near you instead of having to travel to Oshkosh in January). I’m certainly glad I learned gas first.

[Texaspilot]

I’m almost decided on this, although, everytime I think I am, someone brings up a new idea or design to look at. I just keep coming back to the Bearhawk though. It isn’t perfect, I am always drawn by the lure of designs that will run on auto fuel and fold up so I can avoid the cost of hangar rent, but it is a great design and I love the chance to work with both 4130 and aluminum. I value the learning as much as the design efficiency.

that said, where should I start when I get to the trigger pulling stage? Should I buy plans first, or build manuals, or both? Do you just follow the build manuals step by step, or just open the plans and have at it? I’m trying to conceive a rough overall plan of attack in my mind.

[Chewie]

Plans first... My 2¢

[Chris In Milwaukee]

Yep, plans. Cheapest way in to this project. If you can read the plans and you're still excited, you're good to go! If they look like the Greek alphabet, then you've got minimal investment.

If you're still looking for a reason, download and read "Bearhawk" magazine from AviPro:

https://bearhawkaircraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Bearhawk-mag.26.pdf

At that point you'll be writing Mark Goldberg a check

[tailwind]

My .02 would be to begin with wings assuming that after you look at the prints you feel comfortable.
1. You can purchase materials in small amounts.
2. They comprise an assembly of the largest number of parts.
3. Start with ailerons and flaps so that if you decide to leave the build your investment is small.
4. When finished they can be hung on a wall out of the way leaving room for other construction.
5. Get a seasoned builder to review and criticize / compliment your work.
6. Don’t be discouraged to make something over. I can think of a part that I made 4 or 5 times. Believe me my standard is not that high. The part just was not right.
7. Enjoy the build process as much as you do flying in your own creation.
8. Review your decision to scratch build vs kit building after a careful review of the plans.
9. When building from scratch we often look only at the cost of the materials involved in building a design. We forget about shipping cost. Shipping cost have gone up and will be a considerable cost when building a design.