Intro

[Texaspilot]

One of my smart pilot buddies struck. I was about to pull the trigger and he told me I should consider a two seater that burns less and just rent a 182 for the occasional 4 seat mission. Makes some sense. I still really like the Bearhawk. I wish the patrol had a side by side model. My wife insists on that. Still might go for the four place, but I’ve got more considering to do...

[Mark Goldberg]

This idea of a side by side Patrol is something Bob and I have been kicking around. It would be a variation on the 4 place fuselage with Patrol wings. No cargo door and the rear cargo bulkhead would move up one bay. Stick with all other 4 place fuselage parts. Only 4 cylinder engines.

Mr. Texaspilot - you have made clear you intend to scratch build. So probably what we do at the kit factory would not be of much interest. But your comments about a side to side prompted me to bring it up here on the forum.

Ideally, we would make the first one like this after someone commits and makes an order. The kit would be at a good price by being the first. I am going to repost this with its own topic name. Mark

[Texaspilot]

Great news. I cant wait to see it! I like tandem planes as much as the next guy, but my wife does not like them. (Maybe I scared her one too many times in the super decathlon!)

[Texaspilot]

After talking over all the options with my family, I decided we are going to order the 4 Place plans! I’m going to sleep on it for a week or so, since it is such a big decision. I really like that if I don’t want to or get tired of building, I can buy a partial kit...

[tailwind]

Have you considered building the 4 place with the lycoming O 360 and leave out the back seat.

[way_up_north]

My .02 would be to begin with wings assuming that after you look at the prints you feel comfortable.
1. You can purchase materials in small amounts.
2. They comprise an assembly of the largest number of parts.
3. Start with ailerons and flaps so that if you decide to leave the build your investment is small.
4. When finished they can be hung on a wall out of the way leaving room for other construction.
5. Get a seasoned builder to review and criticize / compliment your work.
6. Don’t be discouraged to make something over. I can think of a part that I made 4 or 5 times. Believe me my standard is not that high. The part just was not right.
7. Enjoy the build process as much as you do flying in your own creation.
8. Review your decision to scratch build vs kit building after a careful review of the plans.
9. When building from scratch we often look only at the cost of the materials involved in building a design. We forget about shipping cost. Shipping cost have gone up and will be a considerable cost when building a design.

...plus working on the wings means you easily involve others in the fun....forming a rib is very rewarding and your Son/Son in law...Wife.....can participate banging on a rib.....you can complete an actual flight ready part...in your hands....it's really awe inspiring to hold that first rib

...you will get a good feel for the effort and the journey ahead...with that in mind...you might consider buying the kit or parts to speed your progress....

welcome to to the board....

[Bcone1381]

My .02 would be to begin with wings assuming that after you look at the prints you feel comfortable.

3. Start with ailerons and flaps so that if you decide to leave the build your investment is small.

I aborted scratch building after almost 2 years. All the ribs were done, and I was moving ahead on the spars. As I look at Tailwinds List, I think #3 has a lot of wisdom to it. For 2 years I was making parts. The ribs took a year. I had not yet assembled any parts together before I aborted. I think having an aileron assembled would be a really nice feeling and help convince builder "I can do it."

[Texaspilot]

That sounds like good advice. I guess the expense wouldn’t be too large for those too...

also, the o360 is my preferred motor at this point, I may have access to a decent one, but I noticed on YouTube that everyone seems to be putting the six cylinder Lycomings on. Does the airplane perform ok with the 360?

[Texaspilot]

Just as I peruse the build manual, I see that I will have to buy quite a few tools that I don’t have. Thats ok. I like tools. Looks like a rib is not too hard, just have 2 questions.

1) the master rib block needs a 1/16 radius. Is there a tool for that, or do you just eyeball it to make it look like a 1/8 drill bit?

2) the flange tool looks just like a notched piece of mdf. How do you ensure a precise 30 degree bend, or is that just eyeballed as well?

[Chris In Milwaukee]

Eyeball is generally sufficient for both. If you’re pressing your lightening holes, a 45° chamfer will allow the metal to spring back to the specified angle.

[marcusofcotton]

That sounds like good advice. I guess the expense wouldn’t be too large for those too...

also, the o360 is my preferred motor at this point, I may have access to a decent one, but I noticed on YouTube that everyone seems to be putting the six cylinder Lycomings on. Does the airplane perform ok with the 360?

Bob's preferred engine is the o360. I have a 1000' runway with trees. When I spoke with him years ago he said (paraphrased) "Yes they get out good with the 540, but you still need to get in and stopped."

[Chewie]

This is sounding familiar:

https://bearhawkforums.com/forum/bearhawk-general-discussion-news/6859-the-age-old-engine-question-540-vs-390-vs-360-for-4-place

[Texaspilot]

Haha! Good enough for Bob is going to be good enough for me!

Im getting the shop ready before I buy my plans, it is my cooling off period. I need a few things, one of which is a drill press. Is this cheapie from hf going to be good for me, or should I be looking higher end for this stuff https://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-5...ess-60238.html

I also need to source a decent band saw, and probably sander as well, although I’ve heard I can modify my table saw. I also only have a plunge router, but 5e build manual makes it look like a router table and press are more luxury items than must haves....

[kestrel]

That sounds like good advice. I guess the expense wouldn’t be too large for those too...

also, the o360 is my preferred motor at this point, I may have access to a decent one, but I noticed on YouTube that everyone seems to be putting the six cylinder Lycomings on. Does the airplane perform ok with the 360?

That depends on how much payload you are putting in it and what density altitude you are operating from. A light O360 at low altitude can get out as short as it gets in. Put some payload in, raise the temperature or altitude and that is no longer the case. I'm very happy to have a 540.

[jaredyates]

This is a great thread, but I might toss out there that we do have a pretty extensive archive with answers to just about all of these questions. In the unlikely event that folks become less willing to answer them again here, at the top of the page just under the banner is a search box that will guide builders to all sorts of great information that has been compiled by the many builders who have been in this position before. But we're glad to have you and I'm glad folks are so willing to help a new guy!