Considering (again) LSA or Patrol - new member NZ

[rooster]

I've been loitering around here for about a year. Recently my wife informed me that embarking on an aircraft build "would be a great project for our teen to be involved in". That's what I heard her say and I must strike while the iron is hot.

What's kept my not jumping in before now to a quickbuild kit has been concern that I will embark on a project that will become too complicated for me to finish. I'm technically minded, but I don't have the types of skills that seem helpful or necessary for this kind of project. I don't work with my hands in my day job, but I consider myself a good problem solver. I'm anxious that I'll need more skill than I have to interpret quickbuild build guides.

I'm considering an LSA or a Patrol. I'd be interested in the different missions people are using these aircraft for.

[Utah-Jay]

I had no skills and built a great plane. If I did it anyone can do it.

Go for the Patrol, way more versatility!!!

[Untainted123]

I don't know if NZ has or will have the equivalent of MOSAIC 2.0, but if so, I would skip the LSA and go for the Patrol if those are the options. In the USA, with MOSAIC 2.0, I don't see a valid reason to choose whatever compromises were made to get the LSA to fit within the parameters, and now you don't have to make that compromise and have a more capable airplane in the Patrol.

Unless your son or significant other is truly not aviation-inspired, I don't prefer tandems either, because inevitably they want to learn to fly or at least participate in the flight, and to me that's best done in a side-by-side. I like the Companion for that. You could also configure it as a sometimes 3 or 4 seater if small people and no baggage in a pinch.

No matter which one you choose, I think the consensus here is that:
1. All models are better than no models
2. Don't wait too long, it won't get cheaper, you and your kids won't get younger
3. If some of us have built airplanes, I bet you are smarter and more capable than we were when we started the journey, so I'm sure you can accomplish it. Modern day kit building is really more about perseverance than special skills. The skills and technology have basically been solved, you just have to stick with it all the way to the end.
4. Depending on where in the teens your teen is, the build completion will coincide with them having peak interest, before _their_ life intrudes, and that's moments and time you can't get back
5. <More reasons to go for it no matter what model you choose inserted here cause I could go on for a while>

Welcome to the community!

[jaredyates]

The Super Cub hasn't replaced the J-3 yet. There must be something that the smaller, lighter plane offers.

[Utah-Jay]

Untainted123 brings up a very good point about side by side seating!!!

Companion is a much more social plane, my wife loves it.

[Nev]

Where abouts in NZ are you ? I also had no experience building before starting, but very quickly met a couple of retired aircraft engineers who were keen to visit regularly. You'll find plenty of help along the way. Mine is a 4-place, usually flown with the back seat out (like a Ute) in the hills and on regular organized fly-ins.

[rooster]

The Companion is the new lead contender; thanks Untainted123 and Utah-Jay - good advice - the side by side and jump seat is a great combo.

Nev if everything goes to plan I'll be the hangar east of you .

Thanks for the welcome guys. I'm reassured by your comments and increasingly excited about the journey. I'll let the idea sit for a few days and then get cracking.

--Ben

[Nev]

Gotcha Well we should jump in mine sometime and visit the NZfarmer chap .

[rooster]

Nev, that would be great. I'll bring the fuel and the food

[NZfarmer]

Hi Ben, If you fancy a fly in a Patrol I'm Canterbury NZ based also

[gregc]

I'll be a contrarian and suggest that you keep the LSA in the mix, at least for now. There is a lot to be said for a simple, lightweight airplane with relatively low operating costs. Bob's design offers more performance with a small continental than many similar airplanes. Yes, there are a lot of folks on the forum smarter than I am, but they will pretty much always suggest something bigger. A typical post often looks like this; "forget the LSA, the Patrol is more versatile - no, you should build a Companion for the side-by-side seating - well, if you want a Companion, it is basically a four place with no back seat so go with the 4 place - heck, if you build a 4 place you will wish you had a model 5 so ......". The end result may be something much larger, complicated and costly to own and operate than you really need. Think about your mission, if this were a Cessna would you need a C140 or a C185 Skywagon?

[rooster]

Thanks gregc this is a very sensible view.

[Bearhawk Aircraft]

The jump between models often comes down to mission and utility. Size wise the three airplane you're considering can be ranked as follows with recommended engines.
LSA 850lbs empty - 750lbs useful - 100hp
Patrol 1150lbs empty - 850lbs useful - 180 hp
Companion 1300lbs empty - 900lbs useful - 215hp

The LSA is a light fun airplane that will take off as short as the Patrol does but lacks the backcountry utility and speed of the Patrol. Cruise about 110-120. A Patrol will outrun the LSA by 30 mph and not having. A baggie door can be a bummer when trying to shove bags in the back for a trip. While the useful load is only about 100 lbs more on the patrol the utility and ability to haul that load is far superior. Flaps are also a big plus in the backcountry arena.

The Patrol is the next step up.
Expect to cruise at 140-150 mph depending on tire size and see much higher climb rates. The back seat is a bit bigger and the baggie door ads a lot to the utility of the airplane. Constant speed props opens up the envelope and you feel like you're flying a substantial airplane in comparison to the LSA. In a backcountry / cross country environment the patrol is far superior. For a puddle jumper to run around the patch and fly local the LSA is a simple sweat-heart to fly. We keep one here for the staff to learn and fly and everyone loves it.

The Companion is the next step up about 50% more volumetric baggage space with the option to stick the jump seat in but you will be limited on what weight you can put in the back seat due to CG roughly 250lbs. Pair the with the IO390X and it is an outstanding cross country machine with the ability to climb well and carry about anything two people could want. Cruise about 140mph I do have a companion kit in stock which may sway you that way.

[BarrysLSA]

I have a mostly scratchbuilt LSA with an o200 that I really enjoy. I have 125 hours on it in 2 1/2 years. I have flown all kinds of aircraft and this is the simplest, most useful and fun aircraft that I have owned. Most of my flying is within 200 miles and the longest trip was to Lakeland. I have recently equipped it for IFR just to keep in practice and increase it's utility. With full electrical system and basic IFR it weighs in at 905 lbs ready to go without fuel. With bigger tires I cruise at 110 mph at 2450. Most of my flying is just plugging around local and practicing instrument approaches or beating around all the local grass strips. It is an economical and very fun airplane - just what I need. I understood that the gross weight of the LSA was 1500 lbs at 4.5 G's. The previous entry from Bearhawk Aircraft says that the gross weight is 1600 lbs by my math. Just wondering if it has gone up or is this based on 3.8 G's