The Wicks Hardware Kits

[jaredyates]

I'm working on an updated hardware list for all three types. I'd like to talk with anyone who has purchased or evaluated the Wicks hardware kits and found them to be deficient, especially if you can remember specifics. Similarly, if you've kept a detailed list of all of the hardware you used for any of the three types, that would be helpful. Please send me an email at web@bearhawkstore.com.

[JimParker256]

Jared, I'm keeping a detailed list of all the hardware used as I build my Patrol kit. I've had to order a LOT of stuff beyond what Wicks included in the kit, but they've honored the 20% discount for AviPro customers on every purchase. Unfortunately, I've also had to order some stuff from others that Wicks doesn't carry (or not exactly what I wanted). I'm not far enough along to publish my list yet (maybe 20% completed with the fuselage kit?), but have promised to share the list with Mark Goldberg once it's reasonably complete. I'd be happy to send it to you as well. With luck, look for it around next summer... (Optimistic, as always!)

[Mark Goldberg]

Just to clarify - these hardware kits were never intended to be every nut and bolt required to finish a plane. They are supposed to be all the pulleys, turnbuckles, cables, fittings, etc along with the major structure attach bolts and nuts. Wicks package is only as good as the list we provide them for the Quick Build kit builders. I have requested that builders give us feedback on what was required to get the planes built, and when we receive feedback we update the list. But keeping a good list of everything used is harder and more time consuming than most builders expect.

So any help improving the hardware list for the different models is very welcome. Mark

[JimParker256]

Yes, I think we all understood that, Mark. It's just a bit frustrating for some of us, who have absolutely zero aircraft hardware around... Next guy gets to take advantage of our learnings, as we benefit from those that went before us.

[marcusofcotton]

Yes, I think we all understood that, Mark. It's just a bit frustrating for some of us, who have absolutely zero aircraft hardware around... Next guy gets to take advantage of our learnings, as we benefit from those that went before us.

I didn't do the Wick's package, but I did find that trying to just order what I needed resulted in major frustrations, time, and expense. I invested a couple hundred dollars at B&B at Oskosh, stocked up a set of drawers and am much happier as well as money ahead.

[sjt]

Who is B&B?

[marcusofcotton]

Who is B&B?

They always have a tent booth at Oshkosh with a sizable collection of hardware, new and used. Their hardware prices at OSH are quite attractive. They now have a website, I haven't explored that.

https://www.bandbaircraftsupplies.com/

[Gerd Mannsperger]

A Basic hardware package to finish the structure of each type should be standard with the quick build kit.

All the big name brands in the Kit industry have seen the light.

Just the way I see it. Scratch build is a different story but even the scratch builder could benefit.

The frustration in shopping and shipping delays and extra cost that comes.

This is a big concern to me and probably many others that look at flying sooner than later.

[Mark Goldberg]

Gerd, I help kit builders buy their hardware. If they want the help. Some just take the list and buy wherever they want. Others go through the list and delete what they already have laying around from previous projects. That is why the hardware is not given with the kits. Mark

[Pbruce]

I gratefully ordered the Avipro list without modification, since sourcing supplies from a set of plans which don’t detail all of the required components was way beyond my capability. I’m really glad I did. Wicks gives an honest 20% cost savings which was really appreciated. They are also very approachable and willing to provide what you need. There were no quality issues at all, as is also the case also with the Bearhawk kit (it’s superb) . I have been in touch with Wicks several times since my first order and the service is really great. You talk to somebody who knows planes instead of someone who only knows retail software and shipping. This represents a big difference, and one I highly recommend taking advantage of to the greatest extent possible.

Most of the really specialized hardware and much of the more common stuff was provided via the Avipro list. This was just a wonderful way to begin building but you start running out of hardware. This is understandable, since my version of complete might be different than yours, depending on what we are building into the plane. Also, I don’t think the original list was conceived to do that. For one thing, there isn’t a base model, no standard plane (absent the engine, avionics, covering, brakes and wheels) which you can build from the provided list.

Avipro is quite upfront about this. Still, a builder needs to know “what else do I need? I salute this effort to improve the build process by updating hardware lists. It’s got to be an enormous challenge, marketing an “old world style” kit in today’s instant-gratification world; you add to the list of “essentials” and you start chasing away customers. Don’t list enough hardware and builders start griping about having to buy more stuff.

I believe in the Bearhawk breed and I bought the most complete kits available. I’m happy with it. I find myself now among those who wish for more complete inventory lists. eg. There were14 fairleads for control cables provided by Wicks but the plane requires 18. Aviation pop rivets are required on the control surfaces, yet none are provided or specked for purchase from Wicks. I can’t for the life of me figure out why every rivet isn’t either provided, or put on the Wicks list.

I was was looking at a Javron cub when I bought the Avipro kit, and I have their instructions, and the situation there also seems similar, by comparison. I’m really happy with my Bearhawk kit. I think it’s well pabuilt and packaged. I believe it’s a good value. Far be it from me to give advice to those who provided this great product better than I could build myself at a price point few could match. All I can say is that I could have benefitted from complete hardware lists. It might result in less cost, faster builds and more satisfaction. I can’t say whether it would increase sales, but ultimately, I think it might.

Sorry for not contributing more specific info about what is missing. Like I said, I’m not good at this. I don’t know what I’m short of until I get there. I hope my comments are of some benefit anyway.

[Mark Goldberg]

Pat, I hope you will help me update the hardware list as input from builders is what gets things improved or in this case updated. Builder input is critical. Lots of builders have expressed less than total satisfaction with the hardware kits supplied by Wicks, but very few have given me the information to allow the list to be improved. Items are added as we are made aware of them being needed and not there. Mark

[BravoGolf]

Is there a specific Bearhawk hardware kit on the Wicks site? If so, I am unable to find it. Could someone post a part number please? I have found Bearhawk kits for the airframe & fuselage but there are no details about contents and they are can not be ordered.

Thanks

Scott

[Mark Goldberg]

This is something I arrange for kit builders Scott. Mark

[BravoGolf]

That makes perfect sense. I was beginning to wonder about my sanity, I searched all over that website.

[Nev]

Mark is excellent when it comes to helping with orders (or helping with anything).
This is part of Marks service which as far as I can see, he didn’t advertise. After sending my order lists to Mark, he made all the orders for hardware, brakes, propeller, etc, obtained sizeable discounts on everything, packed it securely in the shipping container, and saved me a ton on freight.

Though Gerd does still make a reasonable point in my view, that a basic hardware kit would be quite an advantage, for all the common hardware parts where little builder variation is seen.

My purchase lists were collated using what I could find from other builders, Marks list, build logs, manuals etc, and updated as much as possible. I won’t know how accurate they are until I’ve completed the build.

I’ll attach my inventory list that collates my hardware orders together. Feel free to make use of it, but as mentioned above do be aware that its my own interpretation of what I think I’ll need.

[Ryan Koeneke]

Any updates to this list Nev? I'm going to cross check the current Wicks list with your attachment above and the suggestions of a few other builders to see if I can't come up with a decent list for this first order. I'll commit to keeping track of what else I order and post it to help future builders.

[Nev]

Hi Ryan, I would go with the Wicks hardware list. I spent many hours putting mine together, but I ended up still having to order a lot of additional stuff. If you're living in the USA then you could consider under-ordering, then order more of each as needed. Here in NZ the shipping cost quickly mounts up. For fuel and hydraulic AN fittings, use a local race car supplier and make your own hoses. They're ridiculously easy, but I thought it was rocket science so initially I paid handsomely to have them made and tested.

[Ryan Koeneke]

Haha, ya I just got done comparing your list to Wicks list and they look eerily identical. Looks like you had a strong hand in making that list (or at least making it better) so thank you for that! I'll be ordering the Wicks kit and following a few other comments that I've run across to add an extra an3 and an4 hardware kit to fill in any gaps (or things I do differently). It does look like the Wicks kit shorted your count of machine screws by ~250 so I might preemptively order some more of them too. Thanks for all the information you've provided! It has made me think that I might be able to build one of these things

[Nev]

Pbruce Pat what is an aviation pop rivet ? Looks like I missed it too !

[Pbruce]

Cherry max or just cherry I think. Barrows just specifies 1/8 SS pull rivets on page 11 of the plans. I queried Mark about this, and he gave me a spec for some domed cherry rivets. CCP-42. They are ok but leave a little bump so you might as well use the flush pull rivets which are follows in the Aircraft Spruce catalogue: CCC-32 (3/32 diameter) and CCC-4/32 (1/8 diameter). I needed about 85 of the 1/8” and 40 of the 3/32 per wing.

[Nev]

Thanks. I’ll add that to my list !

[auburntsts]

FYI aviation blind rivets ("Pop Rivet" is actually a non-aviation brand name for pulled rivets --think Kleenex for tissues) come in a number of varieties of both structural and non-structural. Cherry Max is a brand name for structural blind rivets and they use a special puller that's different from the garden variety blind rivet puller. I've attached a rivet identification guide out of Van's RV construction manual that might helpful (IMO it's better than what's in AC 43.13-1B).

[Nev]

Thanks - all good to know Todd.