Electric powered BH ultralight

[Mark Goldberg]

Bob is doing some thinking/designing of an ultralight that would be electric powered. He thinks he can design something within the weight limits of the ultralights. It would have an electric engine and lithium batteries. He is shooting for 1 hour endurance. He thinks that being able to fly with little to no fuel cost, no oil changes etc - would be an appealing little plane. Kind of like a shrunk down, single seat LSA.

He has been telling me about it. Its wing would be aluminum leading edge with fabric behind the main spar. Aluminum spar & ribs. Tube fuselage structure.

I suggested to Bob that he allow me to mention here on the forum. Some of you guys are awfully knowledgeable, and have expertise where Bob doesn't. Meaning the electric motor, its controls, and the batteries. If anyone has experience in these areas and have thoughts that could perhaps help Bob in these areas - feel free to call him and talk. Mark

[Rollie]

That's funny, I was just thinking yesterday that an ultralight might be fun just to go play around in sometimes. Now there might be a Bearhawk ultralight, which by the definition of Bearhawk, as far as I'm concerned, means it will outperform everything else in its category, that should be a blast.

[Mark Goldberg]

Bob thinks it should fly a lot like the LSA. MG

[Qboiler]

I like the idea. The future of aviation will need too be electric. Currently avgas is too expensive for most of us to do the type and frequency of flying my dad did 30-40 yeiars ago. We have 1/2 to 1/3 the number of ga pilots. These ideas will directly increase access of flying for the masses. Brilliant work Bob.

[Papa Foxtrot]

The old Preceptor N3 Pup comes to mind.

[EBPaul]

Great news!




Paul Roy
Patrol #295

[slscott715]

Bob should contact Brian Carpenter of Rainbow Aviation. He's been experimenting with electric powered ultralights for a while now and should be able to share some expertise.

[tf104]

I would be interested in this as well but would prefer a half v dub over the electric.

[JimParker256]

A half VW is still pretty heavy for an ultralight. Check out what James Wiebe has been up to over at Belite (www.beliteaircraft.com). He's got several different ultralight aircraft kits available, along with a bunch of different engines he recommends. Until recently (see next paragraph) he was dallying with electric power for the ultralights. He also has a line of very lightweight flight instruments that are pretty cool. Interesting guy...

His most recent project is the "Chipper" which is a 2-seat LSA-compliant experimental, currently powered by an HKS 700, a 2-cylinder, horizontally opposed 4-stroke putting out 60 HP. It just started flying, so not a lot of data on it yet, but it's pretty interesting.

[Chewie]

In speaking with Bob I learned he is looking for electric powerplants, so I'm putting feelers out. Anyone know of some good plug & play systems? Motor, controller, charger possibly. Bob said he is not looking for batteries (they are constantly improving) or a $25k price tag.

[JimParker256]

Bob might want to talk with the folks who are building the "EMG" (Electric Motor Glider), as they've been experimenting with this for a few years now, and have tried literally dozens of electric motors, controllers, etc. Brian Carpenter was selected by the National General Aviation Awards Committee as the recipient of the 2017 National Aviation Maintenance Technician (AMT) of the Year Award. He has also done a bunch of videos for the EAA's "Hints for Homebuilders" program. Carol Carpenter (his wife, and fellow EMG designer / expert) may be the most organized person on earth, is an acknowledged expert in the field of aviation maintenance and regulation, and is consulted on a regular basis by the FAA. Together, they teach one of the few FAA-approved 2-day Light Sport Repair man Inspection courses, and also the 15-day Light Sport Repairman Maintenance course. Great folks, and always an interesting conversation. Their Electric Motor Glider web site (https://electricmotorglider.com/) makes for an interesting read.

I know Bob doesn't like email very much, so here's a phone number he can use to reach them: 530-527-5141.

[svyolo]

I think the battery cost/weight are still prohibitive. A 5-10,000 dollar small motor still makes more sense, and doesn't use a lot of gas. I have been using rechargeable batteries since the early 70's in model aircraft. The pace of battery technology has been a snails pace, and still is. Electric Cars are getting subsidized so they are getting batteries at or below cost. Bob won't be receiving the same subsidy. Someday it will make sense, but I don't think that day is today.

Bob makes things that are highly useful. I don't think electric airplanes are there yet.

[svyolo]

I vote for the 1/2 VW idea. Cheap, cheerful, proven.

[Bdflies]

Come on, SV. If we wait till it makes perfect economic sense to try an electric plane, it'll never happen. Kinda like the electronic fuel injection / ignition systems for Lycomings. They're so expensive, it's hard to justify them other than because one chooses to step forward, out of the box. I think it's great that some folks choose to go that route. Good thing Wilbur and Orville didn't wait till airplanes made economic sense... Far as I can tell, they'd still be waiting!

Bill

[svyolo]

Design it for a 90 lb 1/2 VW motor of 38 hp. When they can make a 38 hp electric motor and battery combination that weighs something close to 90 lbs, and at a price people will open their wallet and buy it, wah lah! Electric airplane. The electric motors are there. The batteries are too expensive, and too heavy if you want any kind of endurance.

I know of a couple of trike (Hang gliders with a motorized frame) vendors that offer electric propulsion as an option, and have for several years. I haven't looked for a while, but I believe it was a 15,000 dollar option. That is for 15 hp, and 30-40 minutes of endurance.

I love the idea. I also love the idea of the flying car that has been on the cover of Popular Mechanics for 30 - 40 years. Neither are going to happen anytime soon.

Say you are in the market for an ultralight that is going to cost 30k, all up. Would you personally pay an extra 25,000 dollars for the electric option? I would not.

[lsa140]

It's great to hear Bob is considering an electric plane and hopefully we get to see it take flight. As mentioned battery cost/weight will be the challenge. Even so it is exciting to see him take interest in exploring something new. Guys in their garage doing what many think to be undoable or impractical is part of the homebuilding spirit. If this is what sparks his interest and gets him interested in creating another design, then more power to him.

I've recently switched to brushless motors in my RC planes and have been enjoying many hours of thrust/flight testing dozens of different prop/battery combinations. It's amazing how specific you can get with the ability to pair different combinations of motor kv, battery voltage, and prop size/pitch/blade count.