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  • Question for ALL flying Bearhawks

    I have a question for all flying Bearhawks of all types. When using the radio, what do you call yourself?. I always thought it was a waste of time using my N number, except where requested. At an uncontrolled field I only care about what is coming into the pattern with me—a jet or a cub. Right now not a lot of folks actually know what a Bearhawk Patrol is so I just say experimental high wing. If other people are in the pattern I say yellow and white high wing. Just wondering what the rest of you do or is there something I'm supposed to say??

  • #2
    Not that he would be the absolute authority on such, but I asked that question of a friend, who is an air traffic controller. The "official line" is -Experimental Four Seven Niner Bravo Kilo (in my case). Subsequent calls can be Experimental Niner Bravo Kilo. At the time, I was flying a Glasair and he further commented that I was welcome to use "Glasair" at my home field (class C towered field), because they all knew what that was. He did stress the "official line" when cross country.
    Sooooo.... To answer your interrogatory, I call as "Experimental Four Seven Niner Bravo Kilo".

    Bill

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    • #3
      Not currently flying a BH but when I was at towered fields I used what I'm supposed to "experimental n----." At non-tower fields I don't have to say anything so it was either "Bearhawk N----" or "red and white high wing."
      Scratch Built 4-place Bearhawk. Continental IO-360, 88" C203 McCauley prop.

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      • #4
        We are required by part 91 to notify ATC facilities that we are experimental, so I use that in the initial call when it is to ATC. When making ctaf calls, I use the n-number. The visual descriptions have advantages and disadvantages, but in a busier pattern (more than two airplanes) I'd rather use my call sign because that's what I'd prefer for everybody else to do too.

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        • #5
          For me, it depends. I live at a Class D, so I obviously use my N-number when there. When going to a fly-in or something at an uncontrolled field with a fair amount of traffic, I'll call myself out as "Blue and White Maule" or "Blue and White Maule N1819B", just so folks know who to look for.

          If I was flying a Bearhawk, I'd use "Experimental Bearhawk N12345" until folks were comfortable with me.

          But you really can't go wrong with "Experimental N12345", and I reckon if someone wants to know what kind of plane I am, they'll ask.
          Christopher Owens
          Bearhawk 4-Place Scratch Built, Plans 991
          Bearhawk Patrol Scratch Built, Plans P313
          Germantown, Wisconsin, USA

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          • #6
            Actually FAR 91.319 d (3) ( the Patrol is a long ways from flying, but I have a RV8) along with the ops limit, says that you must notify the control tower (not ATC) about experimental. My ops limits also says to put experimental in the remarks section of the IFR flight plan. So, I don't use the term "experimental" (except in/out of towered airports). If a person doesn't know what an RV (or a Bearhawk) is, using the term "experimental' won't help with a description. The AIM Chapter 4, has some examples of radio calls (to controllers), but examples could also apply to non towered fields. Advisory Circular 90-42F Traffic advisory practices at non towered airports, has some recommended procedures, they suggest using the N number (now before anyone says,,, correct,, the procedure is not mandatory).
            DFW

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            • #7
              I fly a smaller two seater experimental right now and use the term "Experimental N...." Being slow, I'm always wanting to know who and what's going on, especially coming my way behind me, and if I hear the word "Experimental", I can assume it's not 300 mph jet at 5 miles entering the pattern. I guess what I'm saying is, other than the regs, from a safety point for yourself, I think stating experimental instead of Bearhawk is to your advantage. Other traffic will have a more clear picture of what you are.

              Comment


              • Flygirl1
                Flygirl1 commented
                Editing a comment
                Don’t count on an experimental not being super fast. Dennis just sold a Mustang II project that when finished will reach the two hundred MPH mark. Not to mention all the other high speed homebuilts. I think there actually is a jet homebuilt kit available. But I’m with you on I want to know whats coming up behind me and how fast is it going. Based on the experimental available a high wing exp is going to be slower than most low wing exp’s.
                Last edited by Flygirl1; 11-10-2017, 03:50 PM.

            • #8
              Personally I'd like to not have to decide when or when not to call myself experimental, one more thing to calculate and that could lead to a mistake. "Experimental 12345" every time.
              Dave B.
              Plane Grips Co.
              www.planegrips.com

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              • #9
                I'll probably come up with something like "black and blue experimental N266OP high wing tail dragger er... bearhawk... um, standby, uh lost my train of thought"
                Mark
                Scratch building Patrol #275
                Hood River, OR

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                • Flygirl1
                  Flygirl1 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  That's funny! I've actually stumbled with something just about like that in the beginning. ;-) I'd like to get the "Bearhawk Patrol" out there just so people get to know what it is, but it's a lot to say. I can't use just Patrol, we have a pipeline patrol guy that uses our freq and I wouldn't want to confuse that matter either! So in uncontrolled airspace I think I'll stick to Exp high wing for now.

                • Bdflies
                  Bdflies commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Funny how things are different in different areas. Down here, the pipeline patrol guys all call in as "Pipeline 123". Never heard 'Patrol' from one. Also, I don't ever recall hearing "high wing experimental". Makes a lot of sense, just haven't heard that. At some of the local private strips, I've been known to call as "Patrol 9BK".... kinda just to perk up some ears.

                  Bill

              • #10
                Wonder if for example "Bearhawk in ex 8474 kilo", when calling a towered airport. Then 74 kilo for the remainder? Wouldn't ATC understand you're an experimental Bearhawk?
                Last edited by Mark Moyle; 11-11-2017, 02:22 AM.

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                • Flygirl1
                  Flygirl1 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I'm sure it would. I wonder why the tower needs to know your an experimental? I get it why your passenger might like to have that info, but the Tower? Maybe we get extra special treatment because we're extra special people. ;-)

              • #11
                Towered airport I use 'experimental 942VT' like we're supposed to.
                Non towered or backcountry - 'Red and White Bearhawk'. In non towered situations I want to know what else is around me, what to look for, color and type is important - to me. I'd rather hear 'yellow cub' than 'Piper 1938A'

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                • #12
                  When all else fails, read the guidance from the FAA:

                  14 CFR 91.319

                  § 91.319 Aircraft having experimental
                  certificates:
                  (d) Each person operating an aircraft
                  that has an experimental certificate
                  shall—
                  (1) Advise each person carried of the
                  experimental nature of the aircraft;
                  (2) Operate under VFR, day only, unless
                  otherwise specifically authorized
                  by the Administrator; and
                  (3) Notify the control tower of the experimental
                  nature of the aircraft when
                  operating the aircraft into or out of
                  airports with operating control towers.

                  Aeronautical Information Manual:

                  4−2−4. Aircraft Call Signs
                  a. Precautions in the Use of Call Signs.
                  1. Improper use of call signs can result in pilots
                  executing a clearance intended for another aircraft.
                  Call signs should never be abbreviated on an initial
                  contact or at any time when other aircraft call signs
                  have similar numbers/sounds or identical letters/
                  number; e.g., Cessna 6132F, Cessna 1622F,
                  Baron 123F, Cherokee 7732F, etc.

                  3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft
                  type, model or manufacturer’s name, followed by the
                  digits/letters of the registration number. When the
                  aircraft manufacturer’s name or model is stated, the
                  prefix “N” is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four
                  Alpha.
                  EXAMPLE−
                  1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.
                  2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit
                  “Experimental” after initial contact).

                  See attached excerpt fro FAAO 7360.1B Aircraft Type Designators.

                  SO, this is what the book says:

                  On initial contact with an operating control tower, it should be "Kenai Tower, Bearhawk Niner-Zero-Seven Papa Mike Experimental is ten miles north inbound for landing with Delta (ATIS)"

                  Subsequent contacts could be "Bearhawk Seven Papa Mike"

                  Calling traffic using a CTAF on initial call and subsequent calls omit "Experimental" entirely. Example:

                  "Soldotna area traffic, Bearhawk Niner-Zero-Seven Papa Mike is five miles southeast, on a 45 to enter right traffic for runway seven"

                  "Soldotna area traffic, Bearhawk Seven Papa Mike is turning final for runway seven".
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                  This gallery has 1 photos.
                  Last edited by alaskabearhawk; 11-11-2017, 02:33 PM.

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                  • #13
                    Bearhawk Owner and ATC here.

                    On the radio I refer to myself as “Bearhawk C-GFBH”. Contrary to popular belief the Bearhawk does have an official type designator in the ICAO handbook. It is BEAR. This designator can be inserted into flight plans or radar tags to identify a Bearhawk and is common to all Bearhawk variants.

                    Controllers that know the type will refer to me as a Bearhawk and those that don’t when passing traffic will refer to me as a Bear.

                    One time I was in the Class Bravo and a controller asked “What’s a Bear?” I replied “it’s a large furry mammal sometimes they are brown sometimes they are black and if you go far enough north they are white” he had a good chuckle after an awkward pause and it became a bit of a joke for the rest of the flight as each subsequent controller asked me the same thing and got the same reply.
                    You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                    This gallery has 2 photos.
                    Last edited by Baloo; 11-11-2017, 07:40 PM.
                    Bearhawk 4 Place
                    IO-540
                    MGL Odyssey Gen 2 EFIS
                    ABW 29" Tires
                    Appareo ESG ADSB-Out
                    Garmin GTR-200 COMM

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                    • Flygirl1
                      Flygirl1 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I looked it up on-line and still not sure what ICAO is. I see your from Canada and first assumed the C stood for Canada, but it does not. It has everything to do with airport codes, I think. The U.S. is designated with a K in the airport code if it is all letters. All very confusing, but that’s the way they do it. This BEAR designation is new to me so thanks for sharing that. I LIKE IT!! We are all BEARS. ;-) So from now on I’m Bear 1BravoPop. I'm curious, do you say C-GFBH as C-GOLF, FOXTROT, BRAVO, HOTEL every time? I had the opportunity to pick my own number letter combination, did you?

                  • #14
                    In Canada all civil aircraft idents start with C just like in the US they all start with N. so mine would be Charlie Golf Foxtrot Bravo Hotel or as the American controllers like to say Canadian Golf Foxtrot Bravo Hotel.

                    ICAO is the International Civil Aviation Organization they set international aviation standards that even the FAA follow for the most part.

                    i wouldn’t necessarily call yourself a Bear they might think you’re a Russian spy plane.
                    Bearhawk 4 Place
                    IO-540
                    MGL Odyssey Gen 2 EFIS
                    ABW 29" Tires
                    Appareo ESG ADSB-Out
                    Garmin GTR-200 COMM

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                    • Flygirl1
                      Flygirl1 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Further reading on ICAO shows their reach is all the way from airport codes to drone regulations and climate change! Russian spy plane? ;-). Still like the sound of it.

                  • #15
                    "BEAR" type designator is the same as P28A, PA18, C172, etc.

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