Engine Installation Thread

[noema]

Good day builders,

I am finally back at building after moving to a new place. With all the new space I have finally opened up the engine box and took a closer look. I have to say seeing this thing really motivates me to get the "XHawk" in the air. Documentation is seems sparse and there are many things that I need to figure out. I hope you can help me answer some of the questions. I will also try to post all the details here as I go along.

I'll start with my specs:

• Bearhawk Patrol
• Lycoming YO-360-A1A
• 180 hp @ 2700 rpm
• Compression ratio 8.5:1
• Minimum fuel grade 91/96 avgas
• 95 octane Mogas adaptable
• Mount: Type I Dynafocal
• Crankcase style: Wide deck
• Alternator mount: boss mount
• Constant speed shaft and governor drive
• Governor location: rear mount
• Weight: 258 lbs
• Carburetor: Avstar 61C26047
• Fuel Pump: Aero 62A23701
• Magneto Left: Slick 66GC25SFNN (impulse)
• Magneto Right: Slick 66GP-0SANN (plain)
• Spark Plugs: Champion 1182-E7
• Starter: Hartzell 31A28861-Y (SKyTec 149-12XLT)
• Alternator (not included): B&C L-40
• Propeller governor (not included): Jihostroj P-920-032/A
• Hartzell Trailblazer (not included) HC-C2YR-1NX/NG8301-3X1

engine4.jpgengine1.jpgengine2.jpgengine3.jpg

[spinningwrench]

I think you will find the straight on spin on oil filter will be a bit crowded against the firewall for removal purposes and you will want to go to an angle mount.

[David Swartzendruber]

Part number for the angle mount Oil Filter Adapter is B&C P/N: BC700-H. A spacer may also be needed to clear the engine mount. Has anyone else here already done this installation on a Patrol?
There is another post on this forum titled "Patrol Engine Options" where Bdflies replied with some pictures of a BC700-H installed on his Patrol and no spacer was required.

[noema]

I really like B&C and their filter adapter looks great. Also, I noticed that there are slightly shorter oil filters available. Wonder if I could make it work. I could even modify the firewall a bit. Might be an option if it just a matter of 1/2" or so. I think I'll wait on this until after I hang it the first time.

[joehmason]

We use the standard 48108 filters without an angle adapter and there is plenty of room. When spinning a filter off it comes loose with ~1/2" of clearance on the firewall.

[noema]

First big question, should I remove the engine-driven fuel pump?

engine5.jpg


I was surprised there was one. In all the planing I have not encountered any in the Patrol fuel system for a carbureted engine. The A1 Husky I am familiar with also does not have one.

SuberCub.org forum thread about removing engine pump:

https://www.supercub.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-48783.html

[jaredyates]

Sorry, our replies crossed paths. That was one of my first questions too. If you run the engine-driven pump, you'll also have to run a boost pump. If you can pass a fuel flow test without needing the pump, I'd totally ditch it.

[noema]

Definitely want to ditch it. I certainly will do a fuel flow test.

[noema]

I checked with Lycoming what is involved in removing the fuel pump. They sent me this parts list to cover the port and confirmed that internal engine fuel pump drive parts can stay. The plunger will drop down to its full stroke and not present any wear or interference. Great customer support.

1pc 60096 GASKET-FUEL PUMP
1pc 03D23350 COVER FUEL PUMP
2pcs STD-33 WASHER-.375 PLAIN
2pcs LW-38-0.75 BOLT-.375-16 X .75 LONG HEX
2pcs STD-678 WASHER-.375 LOCK INT TEETH

[jaredyates]

It seems a little odd to run a fuel pump, did you have a good reason to?

[spinningwrench]

I don’t think you’ll need that fuel pump with a carbureted engine. If you pass your flow tests you’re good. Not sure if you are using a fuel totalizer but the general
feedback is that you want the Gold Cube version to have good numbers.

[noema]

Yes, I already have the gold cube installed after the gascolator. In its manual it says there should not be a pump downstream. Another good reason to ditch the fuel pump.

[Nev]

Just regarding the gold cube, you're on the right path here. I initially followed well meaning advice and located mine aft of the firewall (under the floor), however it was unreliable in that location. It's now located forward of both fuel pumps (between the engine driven pump and the fuel servo) and is very reliable in that location.

[Mark Goldberg]

You should have good fuel flow with 3/8" lines and no fuel pumps at all. Not the engine driven pump that came with your engine nor a needed boost pump to push fuel through a failed engine driven pump are needed. Most simple and reliable system. If you have fuel injection this is not an option. But on carb engines it works well. Mark

[noema]

Thanks Mark for confirming.

[noema]

I have spent the better part of an afternoon to identify all the ports. I think I got them all but EGT and carb heat. These two will be on the exhaust and carburetor, respectively. Please let me know if you spot any errors.

What I need to do next is figuring out all the piping, hoses, sensors and control cables. I have roughly selected these parts but have no clue about the lengths I need.

engine_ports_overview_1024.jpg

[spinningwrench]

This is the shorty oil filter you will want with the right angle adapter. You may require a spacer.

[noema]

Looks like I have already the short one installed, so no additional clearance gain possible with this mod. The engine came with a CH48110-1 which appears to be the male version of the CH48108-1.

image.png

[Bcone1381]

Install the fitting for your Oil Pressure sensor before you install the engine mount. It may not be able to be installed after the engine is mounted due to the mount being in the way.

[noema]

I am getting ready to test-hang the engine. Based on that I can then measure the lengths of the various hoses and control cables. This brings up many questions.

- Without wings and tail feathers, will the Patrol sit on its tailwheel with the engine on?
- What bolts do I need? Castle or metal locknut? Big washer or small one?
- Is there any orientation of the engine mount dampers? Some docs say there is. I cannot see one with the VIP kind.

I have an engine crane that can just about lift to that height. I might elevate the tail to make this a bit easier.
Anything else I need to know before doing this?
It sounded like not all engine mounts align well with the engine and need to be forced into place a bit. Hope I have an easy one.

engine_dampers.jpg
mount_suspension2.jpg

[Mark Goldberg]

You might need to put some weight in the back to keep the tail down. It will be obvious.
All metal lock nut or castle nut are both acceptable for engine mount bolts.
Those rubber isolators do not have a front or back as I recall.

Get in touch if you have trouble hanging engine. Bob recently tried our engine mount ring at his shop, and it worked fine. There is a trick or two if it is stubborn. Mark

[DBeaulieu]

Regarding the rubber isolators...on the conical mounts I've read that they were the same size front and back. For dynafocals aren't they different thicknes or of varying density relative to front and back to minimize amount of sag over time? Curious...

[Mark Goldberg]

Dave, I think not all engine rubber mounts are the same. The ones Stefan posted in his picture are no longer available. The manufacturer told me recently that they would not make any more for another 6 months. This was after I placed an order in February. I can not supply these to builders when the manufacturer is so unreliable. I guess from now on it will be Lord & Barry mounts which are fine but much more expensive. Mark

[noema]

Mark, regarding this, are there Lord & Barry with the same size? This seems to be quite a critical part because it determines the gap between nose bowl and spinner. Also, I have read multiple guides on hanging the engine and they both mentioned a washer between the damper and the engine block on the lower mount points. Is this something that can be ignored on the bearhawks?

[spinningwrench]

You will need additional weight in the tail with the engine on and no wings. I put a bag of sand in the tail. I will be interested in how your engine goes on, there seems to be variability in the engine mounts. My A&P and the folks at American Champion could not get my engine mount to go on without seriously deforming the mount which I didn't find acceptable. I purchased a Dynofocal mount from Aircraft Spruce and the bolts slid right in with no pressure.

[noema]

Engine came on quite easily but I had to start with the upper two mount points. I am currently using M10 metric bolts but don't expect it to be much different when I use the AN7s.

[noema]

Happy to say the engine is on. Feels like a big milestone. I decided to test fit it with temporary hardware store bolts. This turned out to be a good decision because the engine mount dampers compress quite a bit and I would probably have ordered one size to long. Now it looks more like AN7-36A will work.

engine_on.jpg

Interestingly the mount point order really mattered. I first tried to do the bottom two mount points first and this made it impossible to get the two top bolts through. The engine hole was at least 1/8" (3mm) to high. Then I tried it the other way around. With the top two mount points hand tight I was able to slide the bottom two bolts through quite easily.

I then further tightened all the mounts. Not sure yet how tight to go. I stopped when the rubber started to deform slightly.

dampers.jpg

The good news is the oil filter (and also the governor) seem to have enough clearance. I have about 1" from the oil filter to the firewall. The other good news is the Vertterman exhaust fits like a glove. The parts are super unintuitive to put together until you put them on an engine and all of a sudden everything makes sense. This is a big relieve.

oilfilter.jpg

The bad, the throttle/mixture bracket I ordered from Vans will probably not work out. The VA-149-360-PC KIT brings in the mixture control horizontally and would inflict a bend radius of the control cable of 3.5" (should be more like 6" min). Not sure this can be modified to work. Maybe the forum has some ideas. I found a different Vans bracket that brings the mixture in vertically and pivots it 90 degrees with a bellcrank. Part numbers are VA-174-PC, WD-00103-PC, WD-00105-PC (see attached image).

mixturebracket2.jpgmixturebracket1.jpg
throttlemixture.jpg

I started measuring the control lines. Will post these next. All in all it was a good day.
BTW: I have about 8 lbs still on the tail wheel. So even without the tail feathers on it does not tip over.

[jaredyates]

Thank you for the updates, glad to hear it worked! A couple of things come to mind. First, did the mounts not have an inside piece that set the bolt tightening length? Seems like all of the ones I've dealt with have a sleeve inside that bottoms out when you get to full torque.

It may not be time for a happy dance yet on that oil filter clearance- there is a threaded piece (either on the engine or on the filter that will have to be disengaged for you to get the filter all the way out. I noticed that for my filters the Tempest brand was a little bit shorter and it made a big difference. It will probably still be ok but you'll need the whole inch if not more.

I used the Vans bracket also and I had to shorten it and do a little welding. It was easier to modify their bracket than it would have been to make a whole new one. The throttle position was fine but the mixture hole was the one that needed adjustment.

[noema]

Good to know there are filters with different thread lengths. I have looked at a few filter change videos and I am pretty confident the space is just enough. Also adding a small recess in the firewall would be an option. I can easily gain another 1/2" this way.

Did you add a bellcrank in your mixture bracket mod?

(answer about mounts further down)