Overhead flaps lever

[DRLPatrol]

Has anyone thought about putting the flap lever overhead like Carbon Cubs and others. Got a couple ideas but ??? Never flown with them overhead but I think I would like it.

Doug

[marcusofcotton]

I've been seriously looking at the option for my 4 place. Pat Fagan tried it but was unhappy with his and changed back (iirc). I penciled out some ideas a while ago (nothing saved) and believe it can be done without cables, obviously some detailed attention paid to the leverage geometry through the range of motion will be needed. Time (lots of it before I get to that point) will tell if I end up that way, I plan to not box myself out of the normal configuration.

[DRLPatrol]

I was thinking of a way without cables also that would use the wings in normal configuration, but yesterday thought of a way that I like better. It would take a few changes in the linkage in the wing that would not let me go back to normal. I am drilling skin on now so a little late, would have to redo a few things. I like the idea of no cables because then you would not need the springs.
Having PC troubles right now, doing this on a tablet or I would post some sketches.

Doug

[JimParker256]

My only concern with the overhead flap handles is the potential to become a "head knocker" in a landing accident. I know there's lots of tubing already there to be contacted, but fewer sharp edges than there might be with a flap handle overhead... But that's just my 3 cents worth (inflation, you know).

[DRLPatrol]

I wish inflation would only add 1 cent to our opinions.
I`ve thought about that. I think I can get it high enough so there would be something else to run into first. At least the sharp corners.

Doug

[corefile]

I wish inflation would only add 1 cent to our opinions.
I`ve thought about that. I think I can get it high enough so there would be something else to run into first. At least the sharp corners.

Doug

The most likely head knocker situation outside of turbulence would be a hard landing, when you would probably have flaps deployed and therefore this 1 to 1 1/2 foot metal bar sticking down. I like the idea of an overhead flap bar - especially in a patrol like you are building - but in a 4 place like Pat's I don't see it as a viable option... although I'm not sure it's any more of a danger then the stock sprocket looking trim tab wheel as far as a danger for serious head knocker damage.

[Zzz]

I have enjoyed many hours using the Cubcrafters offset overhead flap handle, and never felt concerned about it more than any other exposed tube in the fuselage for crash safety. The ratchet part of the system has some sharp-edged parts but is above the elevation of the pilot, while the handle itself is just a round tube with a rounded endpiece, pretty innocuous. I think with a good inertial reel shoulder harness you'd be fine. The important point is the position of the lever in the full flap extended position-- straight up and down, and not pointed back. I guess that means the range of travel would have to be designed to cover about 45 degrees radially.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-KPuaaZlDE

[corefile]

I do like the idea of overhead flap handle - in Zzz's video its nice how operating the flaps does not take you out of position to fly the plane (and no need for Zzz's favorite aftermarket "eazy" add-on ) Anyone ever seen overhead flap on a 4-place (or a side by side 2 seater)?

[whee]

Flap equipped Luscombes have a overhead flap handle.

I personally like the flap handle on the floor but it would be cool to see the designs you guys come up with.

[MattS]

The Murphy Rebel has the flap handle overhead. There is a lot of discussion on the site on how to modify it so it is on the floor .

[Zzz]

The Murphy Rebel has the flap handle overhead. There is a lot of discussion on the site on how to modify it so it is on the floor .

Hahahaha. In thinking about this for a few hours, I think the one downside of having it overhead in a side by side is that it's in the middle of the windshield viewing area, if it were to be mounted as far forward as the CC style.

[Steve W]

When I built my Rebel I used an electric flap actuator to get rid of the overhead flap arm. I have flown enough Beavers and Otters that have been put back in service to see how far a human head can reach when subjected to several G's of force in a direction. Allow lots of clearance from anything near your skull. I have a friend that built the overhead flap arm on his 4 place and I just shutter to think of the consequences. I personally think they are a bad idea.

[DRLPatrol]

Zzz, how does the Cubcrafters link the handle to the flaps?
I`m thinking a torque tube across the top of the fuselage for the handle. A lever arm on each end outside the frame and push/pull tubes back to the lever arm on each flap torque tube. The push/pull tube would be in the gap between the wing and fuselage and would be in compression. I wish it would be in tension but that would take some changes in the wing.

Doug

[Zzz]

Zzz, how does the Cubcrafters link the handle to the flaps?
I`m thinking a torque tube across the top of the fuselage for the handle. A lever arm on each end outside the frame and push/pull tubes back to the lever arm on each flap torque tube. The push/pull tube would be in the gap between the wing and fuselage and would be in compression. I wish it would be in tension but that would take some changes in the wing.

Doug

It is a torque tube, that much I am sure. I'm 90% certain it's pushrods inside the wing, but don't risk anything on that.

[DRLPatrol]

Thanks Zzz, I noticed in your video on the rollout of your first landing the flap lever fell back down as you slowed down. Did you just not get it latched or what? That seems to tell me that there are no return springs in the system. I like the idea of no springs adding to the aerodynamic forces you are pulling against when you pull flaps. With no cables you should need no springs.

Doug