Cleveland 199-62 wheels and brakes

[rvanbladeren]

Anyone successfully mounted a set of these on the standard Patrol gear leg? The wheel fits fine but when I insert the brake caliper into the torque plate, the pins only go in about 50% of their length before the brake lining hits the brake disk. This is not good because the inserted length get's shorter as the brake linings wear. The Cleveland supplied drawing shows that the pins should insert their full length.

I could install a spacer on the axle to move the wheel out to provide the proper pin depth, but then there would not be enough axle thread left to install the wheel nut. Am I missing something?

Ron.
P131

[Mark Goldberg]

The axles should have the 1 5/8" spacer welded on it that is supposed to place your wheels so the brakes can work and also have enough threads (barely) for the axle nut. Not sure what you are seeing. Mark

[jaredyates]

Is there any chance that the torque plates are reversed? I was putting mine together the other day and started out with one on that way.

[Zzz]

Is there any chance that the torque plates are reversed? I was putting mine together the other day and started out with one on that way.

This is my initial thought too. The torque plates are shaped/bent to keep the caliper offset. I am running the AKB 199-62 kit on my 4-place QB.

[rvanbladeren]

Thanks everyone for your help! I tried reversing the torque plate but that makes it worse. But I think I have the mystery solved. My post purchase research finds that most of the 199-62 kits come with brake disc No. 164-0501 which is 2.355" deep. One version which is sold as a conversion for Cessna 180/185 comes with brake disc No. 164-03601 which is 2.597" deep. Apparently the 180/185 have extra long axles. Guess which one I have! So will order a set of 164-0501's (and will endeavor to do a more thorough research BEFORE purchasing next time). Take care.

Ron.

[rvanbladeren]

So to close out this topic, I got my new 164-01501 brake discs in and you can easily see the difference. The caliper snugs up nicely with the 1501's. I went with Rapco since they are about half the cost of the Clevelands. Also, when I sent an email to technical support of both companies, I got a response back from Rapco in about one hour. I still have not heard back from Cleveland.

Ron
P131 DiscComp.jpg

[marcusofcotton]

Good info Ron, thanks for reporting it!

[jaredyates]

Thanks Ron, I'm just running into a clearance problem with the larger tires and the shorter brake disk, with the whole story here:

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/26-goodyear-blimp-tire-rubs-on-brake-caliper-17861

[yateselden]

I wanted to bring these posts to date, as I'm dealing with this at the moment and there is very good information here.

[James]

** I know this is a Patrol Thread, but I have a Model A 4pl QB kit **

Hi Guys,

I’ve inherited a Cleveland 199-60 conversion kit with my project, with everything except the wheel hubs (which are common to the 199-62 anyway, so I’ll need to buy them).

At the moment, I can only run 6.00x6 wheels with this setup. That’s fine initially while I learn to fly this beast, but later I’ll need to go bigger wheels so I can get out there and explore outback Australia :-)

I’ve looked around the forum, followed Jared’s discussion on Backcountry, and looked at the discussion in 2016Q2 beartracks, but there doesn’t seem to be a definitive solution (except spending $2900 for a new AB or Cleveland brake kit). Specifically, if anyone can answer one or more of the following questions, then that will really help me along:


1) Are the 075-01500 (=199-60 kit) and 075-05401 (=199-62 kit) torque plate bolt hole positions the same (e.g. can I convert the same MLG legs to a 199-62 kit down the track?)

2) Does the axle spacer I found in my box of odds and ends need to be welded to the axle (Mark G contribution, post 17337)?

3) It seems the major problem is the engagement of the anchor bolts into the torque tube. If I shave 1/4” off my axle spacer, and put 1/4” spacer between wheel and disc, will this work, or will my 8.00 wheels still hit something? (Jared, I have the shorter -01501 discs)

4) What about using (making?) longer anchor bolts to get torque plate engagement? Stock PN is 069-00400, alternative ABI-69-01900 from alaskan bushwheels is listed as applicable to 30-52N brake assys on ACS, but looks physically longer. Might be a solution… but can anyone (with real-world experience) tell me if this is a sensible (safe) avenue?



Because I’m a newbie, I didn’t know anything about aircraft tyres or brakes, so I’ll post and update everything I’ve found out so far below, to help out the next bloke :-)


Cheers,

James

[jaredyates]

Hi James, here are some answers but I'm no expert.

1. I do believe so. In all of my swapping of torque plates the holes were the same.

2. I don't know what the right answer is, but mine are not welded.

3. The problem for me was in keeping the brake caliper from rubbing on the tire. The geometry is a little confusing because of the way things mount up, but I think that shortening the spacer will worsen the problem, right? You can always run the smaller tires on the big-tire brake setup, it just makes the brake disc protrude inward an extra quarter inch which may make it harder to use wheel pants.

4. I didn't explore this option but it sounds interesting.

[James]

Righto, thanks for the top answers Jared, your experience with 1) leads me to just drill off my torque plates now, and if I need a new MLG to upgrade later, well I'll buy the parts from Mark and the rounded shock strut along with it :-)

At the moment, I'll research guide pin lengths, and given Ron's experience with the -03601 brake discs being TOO long, I'll drill off the set I have at the moment, move on, and research longer pins. It might all work out fine.

Stay tuned for more updates, once I get all my ducks lined up :-)

James


***********************

Everything I know about Cleveland wheels and brakes so far (apologies for listing things that are obvious for old hands):




1) Bearhawk 4place quick-build kits have 1.5” diameter axles


3) If you plan to run anything over 8:00s, you need double puck brakes.
4) Bearhawk supplied axle spacer is 1-5/8” long, and should welded to the axle (Eric Newton’s manual), or possibly not (Jared Yates). Bearhawk Tips doesn’t say either way.

5) Cleveland IPB parts catalogue is AWBPC0001-15(USA)

6) Cleveland offer “wheel assemblies”: (e.g. 40-75D), these aren’t part numbers, they are designators for assemblies that have various combinations of hubs and brake discs.
Cleveland also offer “brake assemblies” (e.g. 30-52N), for various combinations of brake calliper and torque plates.

7) Cleveland combine these wheel and brake assemblies to form “kits”, eg 199-60. There are so many kits, brake and wheel assemblies, because Cleveland offer specific conversions for dozens of different certified aircraft, e.g. Cessnas.

The 199-60 kit (= 40-75B + 30-52) is only suitable for 6.00x6 tyres, which are suitable for most formed strips, but not for rough bush strips.
The 199-62 kit (= 40-75D + 30-52N) is suitable for tyres 6.00x6 up to 8.50x6 tyres, which will cover most backcountry flying, but not improvised landing areas with big stones, ruts etc. Above 8.50, you need special kits, e.g. alaskan bushwheel kits.

The 199-60 and 199-62 conversion kits share most common parts, but the torque plates and brake discs are different.

199-60
Disc 164-01501
Torque Plate: 075-01500

199-62
Disc 164-13601 This disc is deeper than the -01501, so that the rim sits further away from the hub, giving more clearance for wider tyres.
Torque Plate: 075-05401 These torque plates have longer lug bushings, which permits more guide bolt engagement when using deeper brake discs.

According to Jared Yates, the torque plate hole layouts are common between the various kits (UNCONFIRMED), so you can possibly retro fit either kit to a MLG that has already been drilled off.

8) The standard guide bolts ("anchor bolts") used with both the 30-52 and 30-52N calipers are the 069-00400.
It is 7/16" diameter, has a smooth shaft of 1-3/4", and an overall length of 2-3/8".
It seems that Alaskan Bushwheels offer the ABI-69-01900 pin, which is longer, permitting more engagement in the torque plate lugs. (UNCONFIRMED)
This may allow you to use the short lug 075-01500 torque plates with a spacer between disc and wheel hub (UNCONFIRMED).

see as well - https://www.shortwingpipers.org/foru...=10&page=4


9) There's not a lot of space on the MLG flange when drilling off your torque plate holes. Cleveland offer a bushing kit 145-01000, to fit 5/16” bolts to the 3/8” holes in the torque plates.


Ok, that's what I have so far, people out there who know more than I do, please chip in and correct any errors! :-)

James