Announcement

**BrokenStraw** · 02-02-2024, 07:16 PM

Welcome to the Bearhawk community. I just started a Quick Build Companion kit and anticipate that it will take 2+ years to complete. I cannot image building from scratch and am amazed by the talented builders who do just that. There are some truly talented people posting on this forum who should be able to give you guidance and advice. Good luck.

**alaskabearhawk** · 02-03-2024, 01:26 AM

Welcome Rogelio!

I'm sure others will add some comments, but here are my recommendations: If you want to put your airplane together and fly in a reasonable time, buy a kit. It is by far the easiest to way to flight and the kits are top-notch. If you have the time, skills and desire you can always build it yourself. But, be advised it is a HUGE project and it takes a tremendous amount of time. You didn't say if you had any family or other commitments. If you do, that should weigh heavily in your decision too. Good luck and welcome to the group.

**SpruceForest** · 02-03-2024, 07:59 AM

For me, the decision re: kit or from scratch hinged on the trade between flying and building, as well as the draw of learning new skills (sheet metal wing, fuse/wing weldments OA and TIG welding, and fabric work to add to composites and avionics skills already in hand). Also - being on the curmudgeonly end of the cranky hermit/easy-going surfer dude scale, I prefer to make my own decisions on most things, and scratch building allows me more latitude in doing so.

Re: additional criteria:

- Scratch/plans-built allows things to get moving quickly, with minimal investment and near-immediate progress (e.g., buy a rib and spar kit and start on the ailerons and flaps; buy some .032 and .025 2024, some MDF, snips, files, a dead-blow hammer, and start banging out ribs). An 18 month wait for a kit to arrive may be just enough time to arrange workshop space, get through the ensuing marital drama, and start building that ecosystem (discussed below), or it may be an unwanted delay in anything approaching progress towards your goal.

- Scratchbuilding usually involves more investment on the tooling up and fixturing side of things, although savvy builders can dramatically minimize those costs (note the post on free-for-the-taking jigs, fixtures, materials, etc. in NC for BH4.... likely useful in the 5 as well given similarities)

- For a first-time builder, the path to salty and savvy is usually through a build project, so a nice little chicken and egg problem that may be somewhat mitigated if you can find a more experienced set of builders in your area (this is an example of the virtual [here] and physical [in the Real/local] ecosystems that successful builders establish as a necessary part of a build project).

- Personality and confidence in research skills and approach to decision-making matter. Most of us are somewhere on the spectrum between flipping a coin and paralysis-by-analysis with regards to problem-solving, so if you routinely agonize over decision-making tasks, scratch building will dramatically multiply that agony. If you instead agonize over others making decisions for you (e.g., who the heck are these idiots to decide what I drive, eat, etc.), build-from-scratch is likely more your cup of (insert beverage of choice).

And finally:

Consider the very real possibility that your interests in what you wish to build evolve as you build your skills and knowledge as a pilot. I went through a phase at about 6000 hours total time where I thought a nice 200 knot solo cross-country machine was on the table. Newly single and a selection of potentially interesting acquaintances scattered around the country made the fantasy of hopping in an airplane Friday AM and a beachside dinner with interesting company a defining mission. Some time later, after accumulating a wife and daughter, my mission needs changed to something that could handle primarily East Coast hops and local stuff. A larger airplane was ruled out, largely because I can borrow or rent the aerial equivalent of an F-150 on the rare occasions that I need more than two seats and a generous baggage compartment, and both females in my life prefer to keep feet on the ground.

With a mission change, a kit may be sold, and we see them change hands with frequency dependent on the design, but that kit purchase money may be tied up in what is usually a depreciating asset for a long period of time. This is not to say that that money might not have done worse invested in a 401K - the recent past has offered abundant confirmation of that fact - but cost of a kit can be a meaningful financial event for some of us non-Trustifarians. Scratchbuilding allows accumulation of materials and expenses as fabrication progresses, allowing more in the way of a budget-friendly approach. If interest flags or some life-changing event occurs, there is generally less money involved in moving on from the effort (but adds more in the way of tooling-up costs as already mentioned).

Good luck with your project, whatever it might be, and welcome.

**Redneckmech** · 02-03-2024, 11:20 AM

Welcome Rogelio!

It seems you and I are a similar age and background. I also used to be a welder so am looking forward to welding up my fuselage, but in the meantime have been learning to shape aluminum into wings.

alaskabearhawk and SpruceForest summed up the trade-offs very well. I am currently over a year into a scratch build Five, working through wing ribs and preparing for spars. It is a huge commitment of time, but for me it is an opportunity to learn new skills and teach craftsmanship to my three boys (They are getting pretty darn good with a rivet gun!).

At the rate I am building, it will likely take a minimum of 10 years, and I will be pleasantly surprised if it is less. If I did not have an aircraft that I could fly while building, and enjoy the build process, I likely would have considered a kit. A scratch build is a huge time commitment and requires an understanding and supportive family.

Best of luck with your decision and project!

**Paul Johnston** · 02-04-2024, 11:16 AM

With no flight experience I would start training first. The flight training takes both your time and money so the project could prevent you from obtaining a certificate, but the Bearhawk is probably the right airplane for you. Welcome to the group and stay tuned. By the way- the upcoming LSA rules will include all Bearhawk models - you may consider a sport pilot certificate.

**Rogelio** · 01-21-2025, 01:06 PM

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for the thorough responses. Thank you for the insight Spruce Forest. I'm committed to going Scratch build. I'm finishing up on a 68 Bronco and I'll start tooling up after this gets completed.

I've recently followed and watched a bunch of youtube videos by a channel named B-Spot. This has given me a ton of delusional confidence and I believe that I can accomplish building from scratch. I wouldn't be surprised if B Spot is on this forum since hes building a bear hawk 4.

After researching costs and build fees, I'm considering going with a retrofitted LS3 for the bear hawk 5 build. Do we have any folks within this forum that have already accomplished that?

in gratitude,

Rogelio

**Rogelio** · 01-21-2025, 10:45 PM

That’s awesome. I love my EB. Definitely going to love having a bearhawk soon too.

**huntaero** · 01-22-2025, 11:17 AM

Welcome to the forum scratch build is definatly time consuming 3 of us built 4 bearhawk 4A's from scratch first one to fly 15 years 2nd 16 years and the next one is ready now so 18 years one left ot go. Start with something small like elevators and hor stab that will give you an idea on the welding and fabricating the 4130 tubing.

**gregc** · 01-22-2025, 12:01 PM

My advice, which is worth exactly what you have to pay for it, is this:

- start flight training now
- Buy an LSA kit
- Build a nice, simple, light, reasonably low cost LSA with an O-200 to gain build experience, general Bearhawk design knowledge and flight time
- After flying the LSA for a while, re-assess your mission and decide if you really need an airplane that is as big, complex and expensive as a BH5
- Sell the LSA and use the proceeds to fund a scratch build or kit 4 or 5

This may seem like the long way around but it has the advantage of providing multiple opportunities to change course along the way (who knows, you might find you want an instrument rating and an RV-10, stranger things have happened

)

Finally, if you really want to start welding stuff, nothing prevents you from picking away at fuselage while you do the above.

**geraldmorrissey** · 01-23-2025, 01:11 PM

I hope you scratch build. Welcome aboard.
Gerry
Patrol #30

**sjt** · 01-24-2025, 10:53 AM

Get a third class medical first. The FAA is officious .
I had to look up the definition:
"assertive of authority in an annoyingly domineering way, especially with regard to petty or trivial matters."

The FAA turn around time is horrible. You send in your forms and wait. There is no phone number to poke them.
There is no email address to poke them. I have found they do not respond to mail either.
I once went to Oshkosh just so I could talk to the FAA in person at the show.

Unless you are color blind it is not difficult to get a medical when you are younger. As you get older it might be more difficult.
That said - if you get a medical when you are younger you are golden under the current third class basic med. You never have to deal with FAA again.

""Yes, you can get a Third Class Medical certificate from the FAA without being a pilot;
this is the standard medical certificate required for any pilot operating a private aircraft,
so anyone who wants to fly recreationally can obtain a Third Class Medical,
even if they aren't currently a licensed pilot

The above rant about the FAA medical is the only bad part. The rest of the FAA rules in regard to experimental aviation are great.

If I wanted to make a car for the driving on the road I could never get thru the bureaucracy. There are rules covering from headlights to the environment - you would never be able to satisfy all of them.

The rules for building and flying an airplane are very different.

At the risk of being flippant, you could legally:

Have your pet chimp build the airplane. (technically , you are not allowed to pay the chimp for more than 50% of the work)

It must be inspected by an examiner as to the quality at completion but that is it.

There is no certification for the builder or builders.

One last thing. Join eaa. Next week they have programs starting Monday.

Webinar Registration

https://pages.eaa.org/WBN2025-01-27BuildinganAircraftWhatYouNeedtoKnow_LP-Registration.html

Webinar Registration

https://pages.eaa.org/WBN2025-01-27SheetMetalBasics_LP-Registration.html

Webinar Registration

https://pages.eaa.org/WBN2025-01-27FabricCoveringBasics_LP-Registration.html

Webinar Registration

https://pages.eaa.org/WBN2025-01-28TIGWelding_LP-Registration.html

Webinar Registration

https://pages.eaa.org/WBN2025-01-28GettingYourProjectFinishedandFlying_LP-Registration.html

the list keeps going

EAA Webinars | EAA