Sheet metal tools - are these useful for a BH scratch build?

[nborer]

All:

I'm taking inventory of my tools as I prep my shop to start shaping ribs, and I've gone over a few different lists of tools from various sources. Quick background - I used to volunteer at a CAF wing down near Atlanta, and the maintenance shop was full of retired A&Ps that had every tool imaginable. I learned a fair amount of sheet metal work during that time, and I mostly recall what I used... and what I didn't. Just last year, I took the EAA SportAir sheet metal course as a refresher, and they too included a list of "must have" and "nice to have" tools. The good news is, with the exception of a few things I won't need until after the ribs are formed, my tool collection is close to adequate for the task. I created a list of what I think I need in the near- and far-term, and cross-checked it against a few of the homebuilder kits listed on Aircraft Spruce. A few things came up that I don't recall ever using in either the EAA course or during my CAF days...

Hand seamer - just about every toolkit on Spruce has one of these. I've never used one in my life. Any need for this on a Bearhawk scratch build?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/handseamer12-03751.php?clickkey=9766

Rivet cutter - even the EAA course guys said this was probably not necessary - just order the correct rivet size. Thoughts?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/heavyRivetCutter.php?clickkey=9758

Chip chaser - never used one, but I can see how it can be useful. Thoughts? Any reason to _not_ get the economy one if one is necessary?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/chipchaser.php

Fluting pliers - I can see how these can be useful, particularly for the nose ribs, etc. I see they have the plastic-tipped ones and metal ones. I'd think plastic-tipped, if I were to get one.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/pliers.php?clickkey=32762

Hand nibbler - maybe useful for cutting inspection holes? Is this really necessary?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/nibblingtool.php?clickkey=2024289

Finally, I have a full set of Harbor Freight aviation snips. I mentioned this to Bob when I picked up my plans, and he said they're suspect and to get a set from Wiss. I'm not trying to question the master, but has anyone tried the HF snips and found that they just suck? Up until now, I haven't really used them for much, other than some metal flashing to fix a roof leak...

As always, many thanks in advance for any thoughts on these or other must-haves...

Nick

[Chris In Milwaukee]

Hand seamer - just about every toolkit on Spruce has one of these. I've never used one in my life. Any need for this on a Bearhawk scratch build?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/handseamer12-03751.php?clickkey=9766

Oh yes, great in tight spaces:

https://bearhawkforums.com/forum/bearhawk-patrol-plans-build/21676-fluting-party?p=21820#post21820

Rivet cutter - even the EAA course guys said this was probably not necessary - just order the correct rivet size. Thoughts?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/heavyRivetCutter.php?clickkey=9758

Depends, really. You could buy a bunch of the same sized rivets for ease of purchase and cut them as needed. But I think it's a lot of extra work, personally. I like to reach into the bucket and pull out the right size rivet and go. But when I start doing more wing assembly, I'll grab one.

Chip chaser - never used one, but I can see how it can be useful. Thoughts? Any reason to _not_ get the economy one if one is necessary?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/chipchaser.php

It's probably a good tool if you're doing repairs and need to reach between layers of aluminum after drilling a hole and pull chips out. I have one, but bought it when a chapter member offloaded a bunch of his tools and it came with the set.

Fluting pliers - I can see how these can be useful, particularly for the nose ribs, etc. I see they have the plastic-tipped ones and metal ones. I'd think plastic-tipped, if I were to get one.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/pliers.php?clickkey=32762

I personally don't like those particular pliers because the flutes are too big/wide. I prefer these because the flutes are more compact.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/flutingPliers.php?clickkey=32762

Hand nibbler - maybe useful for cutting inspection holes? Is this really necessary?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/nibblingtool.php?clickkey=2024289

I might actually have a set of those, but I'd have to look. If I do, it's because it came in the aforementioned set. Doubt I've ever used it, but I can see where it would come in handy since it cuts cleanly. If I had to do the same with snips, I'm confident I'd destroy the part.

Finally, I have a full set of Harbor Freight aviation snips. I mentioned this to Bob when I picked up my plans, and he said they're suspect and to get a set from Wiss. I'm not trying to question the master, but has anyone tried the HF snips and found that they just suck? Up until now, I haven't really used them for much, other than some metal flashing to fix a roof leak...

Can't say that I've ever used them. I do have some Wiss, and probably some other Menard's cheapos, too. I usually grab the newest set I have in the toolbox and pray a lot. If you don't try to overload the snips and spring the head, they should do a nice job for you. Cheap enough to replace if you wreck either of them.

[nborer]

Thanks for the feedback! Very helpful.

[rodsmith]

I've used a rivet cutter a fair amount. Sometimes you want a length in between two sizes. I have had a need of just a few rivets in certain lengths. I bought a 1/4 pound of 1/2 inch rivets and cut them to the length needed, much cheaper than buying the minimum amount of several size rivets. Of course the frequently used lengths I just purchase outright. I have also found the hand nibbler very handy for small or odd shaped cutouts. All you need to do is drill a small hole and then use the nibbler to enlarge and shape as needed.

[nborer]

Thanks! Seems like I should add a nibbler to the list. I’ll wait on the cutter but may get it if it seems like I’m running out of the “right-size” rivets.

[Bcone1381]

Aircraft spruce is my goto shop for supplies, but not tools. I like Yardstore.com, Pan American Tool (drill bits), Aircraft Tool Supply.

Harbor freight 12" Aluminum Snips work very well for straight cuts. Item # 98091

[nborer]

Agreed, I’m not wed to Spruce. I just used their tool kits as a reference while putting together an inventory. My stuff is from all over the place - some second-hand, some el cheapo, some top-of-the-line.

[Mark Goldberg]

Cleveland Tools is a good company that offers good quality tools. Mark

[nborer]

I have their compound rivet squeezer and a couple of squeezer sets from them... good stuff!

[JimParker256]

On the "nibbler" tool... At my EAA meetings, they hold a raffle each week, and one of those weeks I won a Harbor Freight "Pneumatic Nibbler". I thought it was pretty cool, and have played around with it a bit. It's this one: https://www.harborfreight.com/air-to...ler-96661.html. I've used it doing some "notching" for my seat pans, and it cuts quickly and easily. You almost have to use a straight-edge with it to keep your lines straight, but it does a nice job and the edge is far less distorted than when using even the Wiss shears. I like it. (And at under $30, how can you go wrong?)

[bergy]

Hand Tools for Plans-Built

I am gradually finishing my Bearhawk Patrol (plans #129), which you can tell from the plans-number was started quite a while ago. I still occasionally go to the forum and see what I can learn from current builders. I am amazed at how much modern technology some of the new builders have access to. By the time many of the builders have completed their projects they seem to be nearly ready to open their own Bearhawk factory; all the assembly-line tooling required are set to go.

The purpose of this post is to encourage those who do not have access to the hi-tch resources (nor the money to invest in a lot of tooling) to realize that they can still do things the old-fashioned way; one can do most the work with nothing but hand tools.

I made my wing parts without using any power tools other than a cheap old Sears Roebuck drill press.

I cut all the aluminum with a 100-yr old pair of straight tin-snips. I cut the lightening holes with a $12 circle-cutter on my drill-press. I flanged the lightening holes with a plastic Bob-stick. All my 4130 was cut by hand and cut/fitted free-hand an an old-bench grinder. I have learned that (when using hand tools only) I have been most successful cutting critical parts oversize, doing the bending next, then drill the holes, and lastly grind/file/sand the final part down to finished tolerances. I find that the bending process is the most difficult in which to maintain tolerances.

I tried using a wood-router on pocket-ribs but it did a crappy job. I reverted to my trusty snips and my hand-held electric drill, drilling small holes at the root of each little slot and opened them up with my snips. Everyone that has seen the project (including the local DAR) has admired my work.

I will admit that there are some things I do not want to tackle using my simple hand tools, and after comparing cost of materials and tooling required to do it right, it is much more cost-effective to give Mark a call at Bearhawk Aircraft and say "Send me the following list of parts". Just for kicks, compare the cost of materials and work required to make your own upper wing-strut attachment straps to what they'd cost you from Bearhawk Aircraft.

[Bcone1381]

I have learned that (when using hand tools only) I have been most successful cutting critical parts oversize, doing the bending next, then drill the holes, and lastly grind/file/sand the final part down to finished tolerances. I find that the bending process is the most difficult in which to maintain tolerances.

I will be writing that bit of wisdom down and placing it on the wall of my workshop.

[svyolo]

The local, and awesome family owned hardware store local to me, has probably a half a dozen different brands of "aviation" snips. They also have a different brand of cutters for sheet metal, I can't remember the brand name. They also use them to cut materials to sell. I took a piece of .032 2024 in and used their very old and used snips of this brand. The cuts were about as clean as if they were done on a shear. When I get back I will buy post the brand name. Really slick.

[S Lathrop]

I have been using Wiss aviation snips for decades. I even use them to cope thin wall steel tubing. I do keep a set for aluminum only and every so often retire those to the everything stack and get a new set. I have never found even a good second place brand of snips.

[svyolo]

I believe the snips I was referring too are also Wiss, now that I think about it. But they weren't normal aviation snips. I think they are 14" metal snips. They made quick work of the metal I cut, and left an awesome edge.